(2) CGL Collective Podcast – The Value Builder System with John Warrillow – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwvMytqvR3w

Transcript:
(00:00) welcome to the Carl Gould Collective the podcast that offers you the top subject matter experts every episode we bring you guests who will help you reach your next level as a business leader I’m your host Carl Gould and today we have John Morrow and so John Warlow and I have known each other for now I think seven years and I and I I know that because when John and I were talking he said uh I I typed in John Morrow and I said oh what date are you on and it brought up a conversation on Google Calendar that we
(00:29) had seven years ago about the sellability score and when you were just about pivoting your business from the sellability score to Value Builder and and uh and so uh so I’ve had the pleasure of knowing John for a number of years he um he is he wrote the book which which many of you have heard of and and you now talk about as kind of like one of those must reads as an entrepreneur you know he he wrote the book built to sell and uh he now hosts built to sell radio uh Forbes ranks it one of the Forbes Magazine ranks as one
(01:00) of the world’s top 10 best podcasts for business owners he’s had another book in 2015 called the automatic customer creating a subscription-based business and his latest book The Art of selling your business I had a chance to go to read it I got the advanced copy thank you John it was awesome I really enjoyed it so um in the past guys you’ve known we’ve had speakers on where we’ve asked them to basically give us a class tell us teach us how to do what you do but because John has such a you know has a
(01:31) broad topic we thought an interview style would work better here so we’ve got a number of things we want to cover if you have any questions for John please if you came with questions start typing them in and I’ll keep track of the questions and we’ll make sure that we address them but first off John uh welcome welcome to the show thanks for coming so thanks so much for coming on yeah my pleasure thanks good to be with you Carl yeah great um so I remember so the the thing that struck me from our last conversation was you know it
(02:00) reminded me that you started out the name of your company was the sellability score and you switched it to Value Builder and we don’t have to get into why you changed it and all that and you have great reasons for it but I remember thinking when I first saw the name I’m like oh not that many people will ever get a chance to sell their businesses and not many businesses are sellable that’s what made me think about it so I was glad when you change it to Value Builder um for a number of reasons but uh talk a
(02:26) little bit about you know somebody who’s growing a business versus them putting it in a position to be sold or at least maximize their sale ability yeah I mean there is a obviously a big a big difference the the value of a company obviously is going to be in the eyes of the beholder the eyes of the acquirer and there are some things that you can do to create a more valuable company over time and so we talk about these eight factors that that business owners can focus on which I think gives the owner the kind of ultimate poker
(02:59) hand in the game of life right if you’ve got a a business that is valuable to your point about balance sheets earlier it it gives you options right you could sell it if you wanted very few people actually want to sell the most want to know they could sell that they’re building a valuable asset that is increasing year over year that they could bring in a private Equity investor and take some chips off the table they could for example bring in a manager to run the day-to-day so they they love to know that they could do those things and
(03:27) the kind of under uh pinning or the common denominator of course of all of those options is that your business can run without you and that’s the that’s the kind of idea behind the book built to sell right right on and and you you uh you talk about in one in your first book about some of the mistakes that people make when they are considering selling so what would you say are you know from the top let’s start there what would you share some of the biggest mistakes that business owners will make when they are
(03:57) looking to sell their business I mean one of the biggest mistakes is riding it over the top and so here’s what I mean oftentimes what I hear from owners when I say have you ever thought about selling your company many will say yeah you know in the next three to five years it feels like a good time to sell and and I say oh yeah why three to five years and and they’ll say well you know we’re trying to we’re trying to improve this part of our business we’re going to launch this new product and we’re going
(04:25) to expand in this area and then once we kind of do all that we’ll really have sort of maximized our trajectory and maximized our revenue and that’s when we’re going to sell so that sounds good in theory however what it does often do is is means you’re going to write it over the top meaning you’re going to sell at a point where your best days are behind you and when an acquirer comes in they’re they’re effectively starting their Marathon right so they’ve got to know that there’s lots of room left to grow your
(04:55) company and and if you wait until the maximum time you often leave your business exposed to a an earn out where you’re not going to necessarily achieve those goals I’m reminded of a story I wrote about in the book a guy named Rand fishkin talked talk talk to me about the sale of his company he built a company called SEO Moz you’ll remember the story from reading the book Carl he it’s a five million dollar company so not a big company but growing very quickly they expected to be at 10 million the next
(05:25) year and in rand’s case he thought his business was worth four times Revenue it was a software business and so they enjoyed a really good multiple and at four times Revenue he’s thinking well next year we’re going to be 10 million so my company’s worth maybe 40 million bucks he gets a call from Brian Halligan who’s the founder of HubSpot right and says look Brad we we’d like to buy your company and we’re willing to pay 25 million dollars in cash and HubSpot stock and so fishkin says wow
(06:00) that’s five times Revenue that’s not a bad deal but there’s a little part of them thinks his company’s still worth 40. and so he goes back with the 40 number to which Brian Halligan says no not interested and so fishkin puts his tail between his legs and chooses not to sell the HubSpot instead he takes Venture Capital goes and invests in a bunch of different product lines none of which really achieve what he was hoping for because he’s got to go and Beyond his sweet spot ultimately he starts to
(06:30) Hemorrhage cash the the company’s not doing well he personally goes into a period of depression where he’s actually removed as the CEO from his own company The Venture capitalists remove him and I interviewed him about this process and I said gosh ran like what was that like and he said it was terrible you know seeing my company you know being operated by someone else I said what do you think your Shares are worth I mean you’re still the founder right you still got some shares and he said yeah yeah
(06:55) I’ve got some shares but they’re probably not worth anything I said what do you mean and he said well because of the way the Venture capitalists invested in the company using preferred shares they’re guaranteed a preferred return on an exit meaning my you know Founders Equity is probably worthless and I said but ran what would that offer of 25 million dollars be worth today just given how much HubSpot stock has gone up and he said John it would be worth close to 200 million dollars I tell you that story because one of the
(07:29) biggest mistakes I think we make is riding it over the top meaning we think oh I’ll sell later I’ll focus on selling in three to five years when my business is at the top and in many cases the best time to sell is when somebody’s buying when you get approached it could be a very good time to sell because what by them even expressing interest there the market is telling you you might be maximizing your sale ability or you might be as attractive as you’re going to be or you’re certainly attractive
(07:59) right now yeah I mean I think you’re absolutely right I think when you get an unsolicited offer the chances are that acquirer or not is not alone right now the the most natural acquirer for companies in your client base I think Carl in the sort of correct me if I’m wrong but in the kind of you know 50 million dollars of value and Below sort of two to fifty million dollars in value that space the most natural acquirer in that space is going to be a private equity group and private Equity groups are like sheep they’re followers right
(08:31) so they they come up with their investment criteria and it always sounds identical it’ll say we’re looking for a company in a pro in a niche that’s owner operated uh that’s got good margins uh that the owner is willing to stay on and that has a differentiated value proposition yeah yeah I could line up a hundred private Equity groups and go on their website and look at the investment criteria and they’re virtually all identical which is great news for you as an owner because if you attract an offer from one
(09:05) or an interest from one the chances are there’s another 99 out there that will want to you know be in on that deal is very high you would fit their criteria for sure and therefore you can create competitive tension a little bit of a bidding war and that’s when you jack up about your company so so yeah I can appreciate what you’re saying now here’s the conversation that I’ll hear the conversation that I’ll have with an owner it will be um uh and disclosure none of you on this call but you know you may have heard of
(09:37) somebody else so like my friend right like I’m a hypothetically I’ve heard of this conversation if there was a rash that I hypothetically had exactly John so a friend of mine yeah so um so what happens is what I hear a lot is I’m tired I want to get out or I’ve done this for three decades and I want to get out or not not so much that the business might be past its peak but certainly the CEO or the owner is past their interest and uh or they’ve got CEO fatigue or they’ve just run out of ideas you know
(10:09) that the world has changed they don’t have the ideas that or or the energy to try to find those ideas and so now they are going to Market not at their Peak so how can a how can seller you know ex show that they’re interested in selling without looking desperate um yeah great because I think you’re absolutely right if you approach an acquirer and say oh please buy me I’m just tired and and you know like I want to go do something else you know you’re gonna get an absolute discount for the value of your company you wanna you
(10:42) wanna present and position yourself in in the most favorable light and and I think the best way to do that is approach a strategic acquire with a partnership opportunity with the discussion around a strategic partnership because it gives you plausible deniability you could genuinely be interested in a strategic partnership not an acquisition but most Savvy Business Leaders and certainly most acquisitive companies will hear the word strategic partnership and they know that’s code for acquisition just discussion so I’ll give you a real life
(11:15) example of this because I think it helps bring it home so a woman I interviewed in the book called Stephanie Breedlove who built a beautiful little business nine million dollar payroll company she had a weird Niche she helped parents who had a nanny to pay and at the time that she started the business nobody wanted to deal with the one the parent who had a nanny to pay you know paychecks and ADP want to do thousands of seats right so they they don’t want to deal with the the mom who has a nanny to pay and so Breedlove
(11:43) built this little company just helping parents who have a nanny well long story short she builds it up to over 25 years 9 million dollars of Revenue 10 000 customers and so this is not a juggernaut this is not the next Google but it’s a good business and she looks out in the universe and she sees that care.
(12:02) com would be the natural strategic acquirer for her business care.com uh is like the Angie’s List of care providers you plug in your zip code and it’ll give you the five-star rated babysitters in your local market she looks up and they have seven million subscribers seven million parents who have a nanny to pay and so she does the math and says well all these guys need my payroll service so it’s one of two things you could do you could reach out to the CEO and say hey buy my company and that’s going to
(12:32) put you on the defensive and it’s going to be a problem she does the opposite she goes to the middle of the organization and she finds a marketing manager and she strikes up a conversation with marketing manager and says look we’ve got all this content about how do you set up payroll for nannies why don’t we provide that content to you on a marketing sharing agreement marketing manager says sounds great and they Strike Up This partnership well she then Daisy chains her way from the marketing manager to the marketing
(12:59) director to the vice president and ultimately to the CEO of care where she says we’ve had this partnership now for the few months right I think there’s more that we could be doing together why don’t we sit down long story short Sheila the CEO of care.com acquired Stephanie breedlove’s business for 54 million dollars oh which is six times Revenue an outlandish multiple like it like it doesn’t make sense on any valuation calculator but it was because she painted the Strategic value of care
(13:29) owning her company she said to them look 70 000 subscribers seven million customers if one percent buy that’s 70 000 customers I’ve got 10 000 customers and nine million in Revenue so if one percent of your customers buy and that’s a strategic acquisition and so I like the word partnership gotcha so so now because you talk a lot you’ve talked a lot in the past and and it’s in your book about um how do you create a bidding war right so how can a so if I’m if I’m looking to sell my firm and uh so I so a I don’t
(14:02) look desperate I go for that strategic partnership or certainly a strategic acquirer um but how can I get more than one either bidding or how can I at least make sure enough people are are pushing the value of my business upward so how do you get that bidding war going yeah I mean that’s the the process we lay out the book is is it starts with figuring out who your long list of potential acquirers are and went away down to the most strategic of them and I think it also comes down to being intuitive about how important
(14:31) confidentiality is in your space compared to the importance of maximizing the value of your company if if all you want to do is maximize the value of your business you’re going to want to have a really broad auction go to as many potential acquirers as possible yet for every new acquirer you go to despite the fact that you’ll invite them to sign a non-disclosure agreement the chances that the market finds out goes up equally if you want to narrow it down to a very small group of potential acquirers the chances of you being able
(15:04) to get multiple choirs goes down and so you want to find the balance between enough to get multiple offers but not so many that the marketplace finds out I’m reminded of a guy that that I interviewed called Peter Kelly he built a business called open Lane I don’t know if you’ve seen this Carl they do um are there like an auction site for used car dealers and we’ve got Auto Trader for consumers right but used car dealers use open Lane to buy inventory and it’s just for used car dealerships and so
(15:32) everybody puts up their their inventory now in the early days in the old days when Peter first started this company it was a really Antiquated business that it was all old school bricks and mortar the car would like be put on these conveyor belts and all these buyers for the used car dealerships would like literally sit there with a clipboard and and decide as the as the car went across at three miles an hour on these conveyor belts well it’s a terrible business but Peter revolutionized it made a website where
(15:57) you could bid on on on on on inventory as you might imagine these big Legacy providers for years were worried about Peter you know disintermediating basically blowing up his business their business model and so they tried to acquire him a couple of times all three of the big strategics in that space the big auction houses tried to acquire Peter’s business and so we built it up built it up built it up and at about 50 million dollars in Revenue Peter looked up and said I’ve got a problem brewing and the
(16:31) problem was the original equipment manufacturers meaning the Fords and the BMWs because he lived in fear that one day they would wake up and create their own online auction space right because if you’re a BMW dealer where are you going to go to some aggregator of auctions or are you going to go to the BMW auction you’re gonna go to the BMW auction well none of them had figured it out yet none of them had even had the idea yet and so he said I’ve got to sell this company before they blow up my business model and they wake up and see
(17:03) what’s actually out there right and what the money he’s making and he’s so what he does is on one hand what he could do is go to 100 different companies but didn’t want to do that because if he went to a whole vast array of potential acquirers the chances are that BMW and Ford would find out about his business model and really understand you know the nuts and bolts of it would go up so what he did was a quiet auction he went to all three of those bricks and mortar companies and said look you’ve all freed expressed interest
(17:32) on July 1st I’m going to sell my company I’m going to invite you all three to bid on it and he got three competing offers because he knew they were already motivated to buy so the trick is you want multiple offers and you want to go to as few companies as possible to ensure you get multiple offers does that make sense oh perfect perfect now can I on the acquisition side can we do the same thing can we contact because we a number of uh our clients a number of people on this call are actively looking for Acquisitions can we use the reverse
(18:04) strategy can we con let’s just um I’ll use Kevin uh well because we’re talking to accounting firms do we call 20 accounting firms in the area that we are looking to roll up and say we’re looking to make an acquisition uh we’re going to make we’re going to make a couple we’ve contacted 20 firms the time to do it in the accounting world is May June and July because those are the three months that accountants have do we call those 20 and say on May 15th we are going to make decisions on which offers
(18:37) we’re going to put into which ones we’re going to buy can we do a reverse that way yeah I mean you can’t I’m not going to coach you how to take advantage of business owners because we’ve made it our living to do exactly the opposite right like we’re we’re all about uh uh making sure the owner doesn’t get ripped off doesn’t get taken advantage it doesn’t get out said anything about ripped off I just said could generate interest John yeah yeah look I I if I was coaching you how to
(19:08) acquire a company like look let me let me answer a different way every acquirer who approaches you you’re listening to the Carl Gould Collective podcast when was the last time you took a deep dive into your business get a free business analysis and find out how you can accelerate and sustain your business growth never miss another episode subscribe at coralwood.
(19:30) com is going to try to preempt a process preempt a competitive process they’re going to try to woo you into and romance you into a bait and switch where you agree to negotiate exclusively with them they’re going to force you to sign what’s called a letter of intent which has a no shop Clause meaning you can’t continue to compete to to shop your business to other people and at that point your leverage in the negotiation swings heavily from your favor as the seller into their favor as the buyer and
(20:06) oftentimes that’s what triggers retrading and and some of the negative things you’ve heard about and so what you want to do is make sure you’re not suckered into that when I say bait and switch what the common uh you know thing that happens is reach trading meaning you agree to sell your business let’s just make it silly and say you agree to sell your business for a dollar well 60 days after due diligence you end up being retraded on and they lower the value that they’re willing to pay for
(20:31) your business to 85 cents because you uh they’ve essentially suckered you into a deal without competition and so you want to make sure you defend yourself against retrading got it so if you have to if you so are you saying don’t sign the no shop Clause under any circumstances or limit the time frame or is there any situation where you would be willing to sign the no shop no shop uh cost well you’re almost always going to have to in a small game it’s really unheard of to not um what you want to do is create
(21:03) competitive tension before that so they are aware there are multiple bidders which holds them accountable through the process and then what you want to use is something called the no retrading handshake I learned about this from a guy named Barry Hinckley and I wrote about him in the book he he he built a a great little company when he went to sell it he agreed to an offer with an acquirer only to have it re-traded on and and a lot of the value basically take it away and he said I will never fall victim to this scam again and so he
(21:34) went and bought built another wonderful business bullhorn Technologies and he got the point where he was running a process and selling the business got multiple offers finally agreed to one who was insisting on a letter of intent and so what Barry did is he walked in the negotiation room where the final sort of you know T’s and C’s were all sort of worked out when everyone was sort of agreed to the terms Barry got up from the table walked over to the most senior person in the room and said I will do this deal with you on
(22:05) one condition and the CEO of the other side said okay what’s the condition and he said no retrading and that’s the no retraining handshake you put your hand out you looked him in the eyes and you say no retraining and what that does is effectively communicate to the other side that you understand the scam and you’re not going to fall victim to the game and in many cases that will be enough to ensure that you’re not retraded on illegitimately legitimate retraining happens when you’re when you’re when
(22:35) your numbers your performance falls off during due diligence illegitimate retraining is when they use the fact that you’re not negotiating with anyone else against you that’s illegitimate in my view so we got a question just to explain retreating so um so can you can you uh explain just the definition of retrading one more time if you don’t mind yeah so with a letter of intent you agree to a price that the acquirer is going to pay your your for your business it’s a non-binding letter of intent
(23:06) that doesn’t require either person to honor the agreement it’s just a letter of intent effectively during which you will also sign a no shop Clause where you give up negotiating Leverage so when you sign that letter of intent and the Incorporated no shop Clause you lose negotiating leverage they know that they effectively have a proprietary deal that they’re that there’s no one else competing and they go through a period of due diligence during which they evaluate your company after which assuming they didn’t find anything in
(23:40) due diligence that they found disagreeable they will close the deal retrading is when after the 60 days of due diligence is finished before they agreed to close the deal they try to renegotiate the price they lower the price usually because they’ve manufactured something in due diligence and oftentimes what they’ve quote unquote air quotes found in due diligence is not anything material but they use it to manufacture an excuse to retreat to lower their value lower the price because they know you’ve psychologically
(24:18) bought the lake house you’ve told your spouse you may have told your employees and your ability to back out is virtually zero and that’s when you get retraded on right they’re going to pull an 11th Hour trick on you like well you know what we in our in our plan all of our locations have to be on the corner you’re in the middle of the block I know we didn’t mention that before but you know you should have probably known that already so we want to take 10 off the deal like as a as an exactly yeah yeah
(24:45) exactly so I had a I had a I had one yesterday where I was interviewing a guy you know a letter of intent for 54.5 million dollars uh which he signed they went through the entire process and they they were they parsed the definition of reoccurring and recurring Revenue you may say that sounds like exactly the same but reoccurring revenue is revenue that recurs on a sporadic Cadence whereas recurring revenue is revenue that recurs on a predictable Cadence and they use the fact that he had slightly overestimated how much recurring Revenue
(25:23) he had versus reoccurring Revenue as justification to drop the price by four million dollars right so he ended up accepting that uh that lower price because he was emotionally committed to the sale but that small detail ended up costing him four million dollars uh because of this uh uh this retraining epidemic that happens yeah right on so um so now we’ve we’ve we’re still in the middle of the pandemic it’s likely to keep going for a while what what friends are you seeing um as a result of the pandemic what are
(26:00) you um you know what are you noticing what should people be thinking about what should they be looking at whether they’re selling their business right now whether looking to buy but you know take on the selling side if I’m thinking of selling now or in the next year or my plan two years three years ago was to sell in 2021 and here we are what do you what what would your uh what what are some of the trends that you’re seeing right now that they should be being aware of yeah I mean clearly service businesses
(26:28) have been crushed by the pandemic right any any business that has a business to Consumer model where there’s there’s physical interaction and a service context has been absolutely crush and so on one level those businesses are not in great shape but the owners are really really ready to sell I mean it has been incredibly stressful period and continues to be an incredibly stressful period so one hand it’s a bad time to sell in that context what may in fact be the counterbalance to that is what the
(26:55) pandemic has done to interest rates so you know now we’re in an interest rate environment which is virtually free money and what that has done is basically poor jet fuel onto the returns that private Equity companies get when they buy businesses because they buy a company largely with debt and when debt is free or close to free it makes it almost impossible for them to lose and so what the pandemic has done is just triggered an entire Legion of new private Equity groups very acquisitive who are who are buying businesses right
(27:31) now it’s it’s arguably the the most liquid most fervent m a market I have seen since being in the space for more than 10 years so I think it’s you know if you do have a sellable company one that has got you know a relatively protected Niche and so forth it is a very good time to sell you mentioned in the beginning the value Builder system we we have um people complete the questionnaire uh we have an intake questionnaire effectively when people start with us they complete a questionnaire we’ve looked at folks who
(28:01) completed the questionnaire for the eight months preceding covid and the eight months the first eight months of covet and we compare and contrast those two data sets and we discovered two really interesting things the first is that during the folks who we surveyed during the pandemic have brought forward their sell by date by 20 meaning they’re planning to sell 20 sooner that’s interesting that’s insight for me uh number one the second Insight was the folks who we surveyed during covid have effectively
(28:34) written off the option of passing their business down to their kids or doing a management transition both of those options as their strategic intent has dropped to less than 10 percent now and so when we ask business owners what their plans are for their business what has gone up in lockstep is their intention to sell to a third party so plants to sell to kids or family members or management have dropped off now it’s less than 10 percent and plans to sell to a third party have have accelerated to now more than 65 percent of people
(29:10) who say I’m going to sell to a third party and so we could we could debate why that is my guess is it’s because it’s been such a terrible stressful time many have decided they don’t want to pass on an albatross to their kids or their management and they just want out they want to sell it with third party yeah so and I you’re that that is very interesting and at the same time a lot of people knowing what the interest rates are and a lot of VCS and other companies um they they know that the market is
(29:38) ripe for acquisition as well so for those of us on this call that are in that two to 100 million dollar range what so you know a larger company comes knocking a Fortune 500 or an industry giant or a larger competitor they come knocking and we’ll take all the advice you’ve given us thus far you know no shop clause or no retreating you know minimize minimize that exposure but how can we gain leverage or level even level the playing field against an industry giant if they do and when they do come knocking
(30:09) well the first is don’t shoot yourself in a foot so one of the questions they’re going to ask you is what do you want for your company and they’re going to do it maybe over a glass of wine if you have the opportunity to meet them in person after the pandemic or you know after you get very comfortable with them they’re going to say Carl man like this you built such an amazing company have you ever thought what you’d want for it or what’s your number these are all different ways of saying the same thing and the answer
(30:36) answering that question is almost always a mistake if you throw out some crazy high number they’re going to look at you and say this guy’s completely out of is unreasonable like if Stephanie Breedlove it started with Sheila and said I want 54 million dollars for a 9 million dollar company she probably would have undermined the entire negotiation right because she didn’t have a chance to romance and tell the story and stream The Narrative together she would have lost them before they even began equally
(31:05) if you put a low ball number in place or more realistic number in place you will effectively putting us be putting a ceiling onto which you will never sell your business Beyond I’m reminded of a guy interviewed in the book you may be remember this one the story uh Carl the guy from uh from pepperjam Chris Jones is his name so Chris Jones builds this little software company called pepper Jam great little business gets a call of the blue from a guy named Michael Rubin Michael Rubin built GSI I sold it to PayPal like a very you know massive exit
(31:35) you know unicorn kind of thing and and Michael says to Chris why don’t you come down and see me and we’ll have like a chat about technology and so Chris thinks man this is great I’m gonna get like this little Tech luminary I’m gonna have a chance to you know break bread with so he goes into his office and instead of being on his own Michael Rubin is flanked by his Chief Financial Officer and his head legal counsel and without even exchanging pleasantries Reuben says to Jones all right what do
(32:02) you want for pepperjam so he he says no Reuben says no like what do you like how much do you want for your company and Chris Jones blurts out a number and Reuben without even acknowledging Jones kind of looks at his Chief Financial Officer and says okay I think we can get a deal done what he was doing in in in so many words is basically saying it was Chief Financial Officer don’t pay a penny more than that number and I talked to Jones after the fact that I said man would like would you like to have a mulligan on that
(32:42) conversation he’s like yeah I would love to have a do-over on that because I put a ceiling on which I would never sell the company ultimately the business sold for virtually that exact amount we never know he will never know how much more Reuben would have been willing to pay but it’s one of the classic ways that strategic choirs sophisticated buyers will try to get you to say something that you will end up regretting and part of the process of selling yeah and um right it’s and it’s one of those things that um it’s emotional
(33:12) torture too because no matter how hard we try uh as people if we do something well it’ll it’ll nag us forever if we thought we left something on the table right like you know what I I ate that uh donut in nine minutes flat I think I I could have done eight I could have done eight you know no matter what it is we all think we could have done it better and without him not having the conversation to kind of know what arena he was talking in yeah that’s one of those things that’ll bug him forever so
(33:43) hopefully he got a good number and you got a number that at least satisfied him um so uh now one of the one of the questions I get a lot John is you know we’re talking to a client they’re thinking of selling and they and they say to me when do I ask when do I tell the employees do I tell them and they’ll be excited because they get to go for the ride and maybe I can include a minute do I not tell them you know until the very last minute but gosh I remember when someone did that to me what’s what what is your
(34:11) take on that when when do you tell your employees you’re thinking of selling yeah it’s one of those moments in life where the right answer is also not correct what I mean by that is the right the morally biblical answer is to tell your employees I mean they’ve come they are in many cases they’re the reason you’re in a position you are right many of them are family members you you you have come up together you know the the ones that brought you to the dance so to speak that you know you are deeply
(34:45) deeply uh reliant on them and committed and indebted to them and if you tell them it will almost always be the biggest mistake of your career here’s the problem entrepreneurs are wired differently than employees employees want safety they want security they aren’t entrepreneurs they have chosen to you know to to work for you and and therefore by definition they are not uh in the same headspace as you when you tell them they will get worried they will brush up their LinkedIn profile and they will shop their industry experience
(35:27) what they’ve learned from you with your competitors once your competitors find out that you’re thinking of selling you lose tremendous leverage in the deal equally if you tell your employees and you invite the the acquirer in to meet with your employees oftentimes the acquirer will simply say well I don’t actually need to buy your company I’m just going to basically recruit your employees it’s almost always a mistake so here’s what I would do I would separate your rank and file employees
(35:57) from your managers your Rec and file employees find out when the check clears your bank account your managers the two or three most senior people in your company need to find out in advance because you need them to present to them a much more comprehensive company and so they’re going to find it you can put an incentive in place for them to help you close a deal and a call financiality agreement for them to help them to keep it secret and unfortunately the rest of your employees I think find out when the
(36:26) check clears you know more than half of the deals more than half of the businesses that get to the letter of intent stage more than half of those never sell more than half of those deals get blown up during due diligence and so if you tell your employees they will a check their LinkedIn resume and start to shop B they will always question your commitment to the company oh Carl wants to sell Carl’s thinking of selling I mean if you know this deal blew up but man he’s got one foot out the door he told us we’re gonna have to drag him out
(37:01) of here now he’s entertaining yeah exactly so look I think look if you if you pay your people a good wage you give them Mobility options to to to to increase in their career you give them coaching when they’re falling down you give them benefits you’ve done you you’ve upheld your your your obligations as a good employer you are in no way um uh obligated to tell them about your uh the you know the asset that is your you know your ticket to retirement or or going on to do the next thing you want
(37:37) to do yeah no doubt John thank you so much I mean uh thanks for your insights you know it always it’s this is such a fascinating topic for me because the one of the biggest dreams of any entrepreneur is is launch grow then sell and it’s fascinating to me that how few times that actually happens and that before the short sale before the mortgage meltdown it was actually unheard of you would ever walk away from your house that kind of changed a little bit but prior to that how many people would just simply walk away from their
(38:12) businesses when 60 to 80 percent of their net worth is tied up in it it’s uh it’s always a it’s a fascinating uh you know a fascinating topic for me and and as always you know I we’ve been friends for a while I’ve read all your books I’ve listened to your podcast and yet I still come away with every time we talk with another Insight so thank you so much for coming on yeah thanks so much thanks for joining us it’s been another great episode of the Carl gold Collective where we bring
(38:39) you the best in subject matter experts CEOs celebrities and newsmakers sharing real life stories and expertise to help you succeed make sure you visit Coral gould.com where you can subscribe listen to past episodes and find out more about growing your business if you’re interested in personal business coaching send me a message join us next time for the coral Gould Collective podcast

Carl Gould Collective Podcast – Shark Attack with Paul de Gelder – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yGatOAfpYQ

Transcript:
(00:00) welcome to the Carl Gould Collective the podcast that offers you the top subject matter experts every episode we bring you guests who will help you reach your next level as a business leader I’m your host Carl Gould and today we have uh Paul the Gilder so Paul you jump you you joined the Royal Australian Army as a power Trooper what were you about 23 years old at the time yeah exactly yeah um joined uh just before my 24th birthday right and now you were doing that as a peacekeeper is that right well that’s
(00:33) that was one of the jobs we get employed to do um so as a infantry Soldier you get employed for many roles mostly War but um the the the deployment that I had the year after I joined was as a UN peacekeeper in a a small island nation called East Timor where the Indonesians had been invading and killing these people for decades and so a multinational Force went in there to protect the East teameries and I spent six months patrolling the Border making sure that um these people were safe with my battalion oh right on yeah my it’s funny my son uh
(01:11) so rewind a few years we we go on a trip to Hawaii and I say to my son hey let’s go parasailing and he’s like Dad you know you know I don’t like heights I don’t want to do that right so a year later he said he announces I want to go in the army and I said oh yeah well done I said what do you want to do he’s like I want to be a paratrooper oh uh you want to go parasailing a year ago so my son is a paratrooper right now oh that’s amazing good on him yeah he loves it he loves it and um and that was funny if
(01:40) not for covid he had a a joint training exercise uh scheduled for uh Australia they were going to do a whole Asia tour and um the Australian force was one of the ones they were going to train with oh that’s cool as hell yeah we love it when the Americans come in and we get to mix it up and uh hang out we’ll go and show him a good time take him out on the beers so you see how good see if they can compete with the Australian drink well maybe jumping out of a plane but drinking beers no shot you guys got that
(02:10) there’s no way there’s no way well you know when he was doing air School in Fort Benning in um in Georgia he said there are a number of other countries getting trained as well and there were a number of Australians there he said yeah yeah I’m sure it’s that’s the great thing about being part of this uh Allied Force we get to mix it up with a bunch of other countries we have exchange programs with the UK with America with Canada um so I was actually supposed to go on a three-month exchange with the UK but
(02:39) then uh something kind of drastic happened in my life and I didn’t end up going on that right right so so you go from the air you’re a paratrooper then you go then you then you get into diving right you’re on the Navy clearance Navy clearance um yeah divers right and so so you get onto the dive team why why why the switch from I’m a paratrooper but now I want to get onto the dive team um it’s a really long story about getting asked to go to Iraq to uh bolster security detachments with a small team and that getting revoked
(03:15) after four days and I’m sorry four days before we left and becoming disenfranchised with you know not being at a Deployable unit and uh all that stuff but eventually you know what I just got sick of being dirty and smelly and running around the bush right right doing that for four years can wear thin and so I was just looking for something else to do and uh I didn’t have much to fall back on you know I didn’t do well in high school uh I didn’t have really a home you know I got kicked out of home
(03:48) at 17 because I was about a bit of a bad kid um and so I didn’t want to leave the military I just figured there’s a lot of other jobs you know I can I can move laterally into something else but I didn’t want to go down I wanted to go up and so the really the only way to go up is either go special forces in the Army joined the Commandos or the SAS or go into clearance divers and so I thought you know what I’m down for something different and a new test and it’s it’s very very hard to get into
(04:19) um has a very high attrition rate but I thought you know what I’m just going to pour my heart and soul into it and fortunately I did pass probably by the skin of my teeth but I discovered my dream job and um I really really loved what I was doing it was such a varied job everything from you know a very Navy SEAL type stuff traditional Frogman type stuff like um Maritime tactical operations pure oxygen rebreathers diving into enemy territory under cover of Darkness on pure oxygen rebreather strapped to your chest that
(04:57) would kill you if you go below 15 meters to jumping out of uh helicopters and doing aerial mine disposals on Seabourn mines in the middle of the ocean underwater battle damage repair on hard hat diving on the the modern day diving helmets and using giant chainsaws Diamond tip chainsaws drills pneumatic guns welding broco cut cutting and then also you do land-based EOD so you know the stuff you see in the movie The Hurt Locker yeah and then you can you also can go and join the Special Forces as a tactical assault group owner basically
(05:33) the military SWAT team against terrorists so I loved the varied role every you never knew what was going to happen one day to the next and um it was just very exciting very interesting um and yeah I I you know I I felt like I’d moved up in the world and I I had achieved more in my life just by getting there than I ever thought possible well yeah and sometimes that’s the appeal of it because it’s so hard you know because not everyone can do it right yeah it makes you want to that makes you want it even more you know
(06:05) yeah well my younger brothers didn’t even think that I’d passed infantry selection so I had a lot of people to uh prove wrong and show that I could actually amount to something mostly my school teachers [Laughter] listen I remember uh you know I remember some you know people telling me like yeah yo yeah you little smart ass you’re never gonna do this you’re never gonna do that you know you almost you almost want to send it send it you know send an email back to them more like at a time although of all the stuff you actually
(06:36) did accomplish because you know based on what they told you you weren’t going to be able to do so yeah well fortunately I have to didn’t have to do that because I ended up on every News Channel and every newspaper anyway well yeah you you probably got there in a way that you didn’t think so yeah yes let’s talk about that you uh everyone knows you now you know from Shark Week and the conservation work that you’ve done and we’ll come back to that in a second but so then so there you are
(07:01) you’re in the uh you’re in that you’re in the force and um you have a life-changing event if I if I remember you were in the uh uh uh Sydney Harbor is that right on a uh on a clearing Mission so take us to what happened there um it was February 2009 uh so the end of summer in Australia the hottest month of the year and we were doing a counter-terrorism training exercise and it sounds way more badass than what it was it was actually really boring um the r d Department of the military wanted to test this new equipment that
(07:36) would be automated video and sonar that would detect attack swimmers with the video on the surface and detect attack divers underwater with the sonar and so me and three of my mates were acting as those attack swimmers and divers to um to see if it would work and so we’re like right alongside the Navy base in this very famous place of Sydney Harbor called willamalu we have a lot of very funny names in Australia um and I was in the water second I just pulled the new guy out to give him a break I jumped in the water and about five
(08:12) minutes later a bull shark a nine-foot bull shark came up from underneath me and grabbed me by the back of the leg and the right hand in the same bite and I was so I’m swimming on the surface on my back with just a wetsuit a pair of fins and his bull shark just comes up and grabs me and decides that it wants those limbs more than I do unfortunately and so I I was fighting for my life I tried to go for the eyeball like you hear on Discovery Channel uh but it had my hand and so I couldn’t really fight
(08:44) back I couldn’t reach it with my left hand and so it took me underwater and just tore me to pieces and I really thought that I was gonna die I remember thinking to myself you’re not going home today you’re gonna die right now and eventually you know the footage is on YouTube you can actually watch me getting eaten alive and I’ve seen it the the shark actually thrashes you about a bit Yeah it throws you back and forth oh yeah this is a you know an 800 pound animal made of pure muscle in its element and when you’re in its jaws you
(09:19) understand how out of your element you actually are and um So eventually its teeth rips through my limbs and it because it was probably swimming off swallowing part of my body and I wasn’t attached to it anymore my wetsuit made me buoyant so I popped to the surface realize that I’m still alive and start swimming back to the boat and then I see that my hands gone and so my medical training kicks in I keep that wound above my heart I’m not wearing my robot arm right now so you can see it um so I’m trying to stem the bleeding by
(09:53) keeping that above my heart can’t feel my right leg at all I don’t know how bad it is I just can’t feel it so I’m swimming back to my safety boat through a pool of my own blood with one hand and one leg and fortunately my three teammates were in the safety boat they came gunning over towards me grabbed me out of the water threw me in and started doing first aid and kept me alive until the paramedics came well you’re on this was all on video because I remember I’ve seen I’ve seen the video did they know
(10:21) what was going on did they realize you were attacked or was it until you started swimming back that they realized what was going on no they they saw the fins in the water thrashing around because its tail was flapping around thrashing water as well yeah so they instantly got on the radio comms to my chief who was on The Wharf so and we’ve got a shark attack we’ve got a shark attack right right right so um and this is the first shark attack in Sydney Harbor in 60 years um no clearance dive has ever been
(10:49) attacked by a shark so this is such a rare occurrence I can’t even imagine what was going through their head right right right yeah well because you hear about it I mean it’s funny the uh the movie Jaws is based on a a shark that got caught in New Jersey Waters as a matter of fact where it got it got stuck in one of the rivers down near South Jersey and uh but since then you know there’s always been this fear of the animal the fear of that you know that sharks are everywhere but it’s actually
(11:16) the attacks are actually pretty rare you know worldwide but um so um now I remember when when you and I first met and you were telling me about the experience you there was a time in your so you’re now you’re in the hospital and there’s a time when the doctors are saying or you know you have to make a choice about amputation or not right so what was what was that all about what was that like well the good thing was the surgeon had worked with a lot of Special Forces guys and a lot of high and military people in
(11:48) the past and so he knew that what he had to do was give me the information so that I could process it make the decision myself and so he came in and he broke it down for me and he said look the Paul the the shark has taken your entire hamstring and also 25 centimeters of your sciatic nerve so not only will you not be able to move your leg again you’ll never be able to feel it again now we can save the leg we can cover it up with a skin graft but that chunk will always be missing and you’ll walk with a
(12:20) limp you’ll never run again your Fitness will suffer your happiness will suffer you’ll it could literally Catch Fire and you wouldn’t even know alternatively we can remove the leg and have you walking possibly running on a prosthetic within 12 months um and I was on a lot of drugs I was on morphine I was on ketamine and so I looked in in square in the face and just said doc you can take my leg and turn me into a Terminator is that what you thought is that what you’re talking about yeah yeah verbatim
(12:51) because I was like I said I was on a lot of drivers right right right I was 100 serious I had like RoboCop running through my head I’ve seen that movie yeah I’d do that Wolverine me up doc I just like the movie it’ll be perfect so looking back to you you feel you made the right choice oh yeah absolutely yeah right because it sounds like you get your Mobility back you have a chance to you you get you get a life by choice now rather than being handled yeah well look I just I didn’t want to have my my
(13:25) motivation suffer and my happiness suffer and carry this unfeeling lump of wood around with me I just wanted to get on with life and so if by removing the leg is the fastest track for me to get on with life and start recovering then that’s what I’m gonna do um I didn’t know much about the prosthetic situation at that point uh that did that knowledge didn’t come until later and so um once I started studying all of the available Prosthetics what was our what was coming in the future that you know
(13:54) knowledge dispels fear and so the more research I did into the Prosthetics into looking at videos of paralympic athletes and you know there was videos of men climbing mountains with no no legs they’re climbing this mountain on their hands and so I I realized if these people can do it there’s no reason that I can’t do it there’s no reason to we can’t do it you know that let these other people set the example for us to follow we don’t have to recreate the wheel anymore that we have this
(14:24) incredible thing called the internet where we have the wealth of the world’s knowledge within a few keystrokes so why not learn from people that have already been through it because there are very few things in this world that we’re going to come across that someone else hasn’t already been through so why not learn from them and and we can even better their successes as we move forward so that that was one of the driving motivating factors for me to recover as quickly as I did right right on so you now you’re still in the Navy
(14:55) technically so do you get is there any special prosthetic or anything that that you got as being a a member of the military or you know as far as the treatment or um you know was it a standard prosthetic was it something the Navy had been working on that was super secret nobody knew about like what how did you choose because I’ve seen I’ve seen all different types of Prosthetics you know and they come in different styles and all that so what was um how did you end up with the ones that you got was there
(15:28) anything special about it well it kind of very fortunate and unfortunate time um because it was in the midst of an actual war and so many American soldiers were coming home missing limbs because of IEDs the American government had thrown billions of dollars into research and funding for these prosthetic companies and so there was this huge spike in technology uh around the time that I got I got attacked and so I ended up getting the best technology in the world that was also available to all the American Military
(16:04) um and so you know that initially when I was in hospital they came with claws and like these robot clippers from like Lost in Space and I was getting really scared until I started doing my own research and going no no no this is the one I won um and so yeah this stuff is available to everyone the only problem is it because it the technology is in it if was in its infancy it was it was and is still very very expensive so the normal person can’t afford that um but fortunately the military can and so I got the best technology in the
(16:41) world does that continue now that you’re a vet oh yeah yeah so uh the because in the paperwork that the military gave me they claimed a responsibility for what happened to me because I was at work they they stated that they have a responsibility to get me as close to my former life as possible so I use that statement to get me anything I want for example I was a motorcycle rider I never even owned a car I rode motorcycles and so I used that statement to get the veteran affairs to modify a motorcycle for me so I could ride again
(17:21) oh right on right on Yeah so basically anything I want I can find a way to get it I’m very fortunate a lot of people even people in the military you know I know a guy that was uh riding his motorbike home from work one day he stopped at a friend’s house uh and then went home from his friend’s house and he got hit by a car and because he stopped at his friend’s house they wouldn’t cover him so he’s on personal time not working exactly exactly so if he was just traveling directly home it would have
(17:51) been fine but because he stopped somewhere first you know there’s these loopholes and you know sometimes these these government organizations are going to try and get out of anything they can right well it sounds like they did the right thing by you either way but I think you would be given where your life has gone now you they would want to promote what they’ve what they’ve done for you and with you and as far as you know I mean with all the with all the Adventure lifestyle you still have and the fact that you’re able to do it at
(18:19) that level with these Prosthetics I would think they would you know they would use you as a bit of a poster child for it yeah but you know what man it’s you know the the great technology is amazing but it’s not the technology alone it’s what you do with it like think about what Arnold Schwarzenegger and his buddies had to work with when they were becoming the best bodybuilders in the world compared to what we have right now it was basic stuff but they used it the right way and so even if you don’t have the best technology in the
(18:50) world and I know people that don’t as long as you use it the right way you make the most of it you can do I could do the same things that I’m doing now with lesser technology right right on right I’m just fortunate that I do have it to have it that you have it right so so after all this happened so how long did it take for you between rehab learn you know getting fitted for the prosthetic getting the prosthetic where you were back to some sort of normal functioning after after the attack uh so there was no rehab uh
(19:21) so I I did it all myself um I had no counseling um it’s amazing that I turned out as well balanced as I as I am um they they tried to give me a counselor at my bedside in the hospital and it became very clear that this woman had no idea how to talk to someone uh from you know my background and so I was like thank you ma’am but I really don’t need your help um and then they wanted to send the neighbor wanted to send me off to a rehabilitation hospital but we didn’t have the bulk load of soldiers coming
(19:54) back from war to Warrant of military rehab hospital and so they wanted to send me off to an old person’s home and so I said thank you but yeah no thank you I’m gonna I’m gonna go home I spent nine weeks in hospital I started you know two days after my leg was chopped off the surgeon came into my room and found me doing one arm pull-ups on the bar above my bed because I I did not want to lay there overthinking the situation I knew that I had this goal of going back to work as a Navy clearance diver and laying around thinking about
(20:26) how sorry I should feel for myself wasn’t going to work and so sometimes you need to take action you got to put the thinking aside and just think about what you can do to move forward and so I looked around I found that bar I started doing that I got my friends to come in we tied elastic bands to the bars around my bed so I could work even you know just the smallest amount of progression at a time was all that mattered just to feel like I was doing something and moving in the right direction so um I went home after nine weeks in
(20:56) hospital and and started training at the Army gym I had a very very very good friend of mine move in with me and look after me you know do all the cooking and cleaning driving me to the army base when I couldn’t do those things so very once again very very lucky and fortunate and I did all my rehab myself oh right right on did you go back into the uh maybe after that did you go back into the military yeah I went back after six months how for how long were you in three years I uh I ended up yeah I ended up at the um I applied to
(21:29) be at the Navy dive school to uh teach the new up-and-coming recruits and uh Inspire them and pass on the knowledge that the Navy had given to me so I was a Navy diving instructor three years after that oh right on right on and then so when you retired how many years in the military did you have uh I did 12 Years all right well okay yeah for some reason I thought you had um you had left right after that but I didn’t realize you stayed in for three more years no I I used uh you know fear can be a very powerful motivator uh if you if you use
(22:02) it the right way and my fear was right yeah um my fear was like I said earlier I didn’t have much to fall back on and so I used that fear as a very powerful motivator to show the Navy that I could still do my job up to the standard you know I couldn’t go back to the dive teams because I wasn’t Deployable for war but what I could do is work at the dive school and you know there’s this amazing movie called Men of Honor with Robert De Niro and Cuba Gooding Jr yeah you know he he loses his leg he gets
(22:33) back to work and that’s a Navy diver staple and so I used that movie as my inspiration um and it ended up pulling it off within six months and taught Navy divers for three years after that he’s chose to have his leg amputated as well yeah yeah yeah that movie was unbelievable yeah it’s a really great one it’s a classic when you think of the times and how heavy that suit was and how he had to walk on land through that courtroom to prove he was fit I was unbelievable scene yeah you got have you ever met Cuba Gooding by
(23:06) chance have you guys are already actually uh anyone should do with that movie I haven’t I haven’t met Cuba Gooding uh after my attack um my my dive Branch got together and did a little fundraiser for me and they were going to get the actual guy Kyle Brashear to come and fly him out but he’d actually passed they were going to get his son but he wasn’t available um but yeah it’s it’s an amazing story anyone that hasn’t seen that movie Men of Honor go and get it it’s very uh inspirational
(23:34) oh you talk about somebody who wanted something in their life and went for it yeah and paid every price to get it that was unbelievable yeah yeah so after so after the after the Navy you know you know a lot of people when they haven’t experience they’re like all right I’ve picked that box I’m done you know you’ve had you had the you know the attack from the shark the last thing I think most people would have thought was that you would go back to or at least getting involved in sharks but now you know
(24:02) um you’re you’re you you promote shark conservation as well right and and education so so how did um how did Shark Week happen and you know how did you and why did you decide to get back into actually protecting sharks um it happened incrementally uh you know the the only thing I was more afraid of than sharks was public speaking and which is hilarious because now I’m literally a shark diving public speaker yeah um but yeah but there’s a great message in there you know that you can turn your your greatest fears into your
(24:37) greatest strengths if you’re willing to face them head on um yeah there’s nothing wrong with being scared and doing it anyway and so uh because my shark attack was so widely publicized in the media anytime there was another shark interaction the media would ask me for an opinion and so out of the desire to not look like a dumbass on television I’d realize that I’d have to learn about sharks so I started doing all my own research and I discovered that really the sharks have a lot more to fear from us than we do of them you
(25:12) know worldwide on average is about seven shark deaths as opposed to over a hundred million sharks killed a year by humans so really who should be afraid of who who’s really the monster here um and so you’re listening to the Carl Gould Collective podcast when was the last time you took a deep dive into your business get a free business analysis and find out how you can accelerate and sustain your business growth never miss another episode subscribe at coralwood.
(25:42) com getting comfortable in front of the camera telling these things making these stat you know standing up the Sharks and I I really saw it as a transfer of my military service here what do you do in the military really you’re standing up for people and protecting people that can’t stand up and protect themselves and so now that transfer was just on to another species that is being absolutely decimated and can’t speak up for itself and so it was a nice transfer of what I was doing in the military and then I started doing a
(26:10) little bit of public speaking as well and I just became more and more comfortable in front of people and all of a sudden Discovery Channel came and asked me to co-host on a show and I was like oh sure yeah all right I’ll go on check out some sharks and I work with an amazing crew a very you know one of my great friends now Andy Casa Grande is one of the the world great ocean cinematographers and Matt tomachesky who’s a wonderful producer they’ve made me feel very comfortable until we saw our first great white shark and Andy put
(26:43) on his wetsuit and got in the water with it off the coast of Australia and I was just like what are you doing no one gets in the water with great white sharks are you insane and he he taught me over the years working with him how to do it how to do it safely how little they really are uh interested in us as a food source as long as they can see us you know there’s there’s certain ways to dive with sharks that make it much safer than others and you don’t want to be doing it in murky water like I was doing when uh
(27:16) I got attacked right I remember when we did a we did this excursion in Durban where we were swimming with Oceanic blue tips and they said you know you know uh yeah no shiny objects because you know sharks will are curious with their teeth that’s what they do they they explore with their mouths and yeah they’re just so powerful so don’t have one of your arms hanging out if you have a watch take it off so the reflection of the light is nothing shiny if you have a camera you know uh you know tuck it
(27:44) inside cross your arms when you swim out you know they gave us some point keep everything you need you don’t want to lose exactly exactly and what was pretty wild at one point I’m with my whole family my my wife my daughter and son and a couple of sharks came right to uh towards us and they rubbed their whole torso right down our sides to kind of see what we were all about and um and you and you realize like you like you said how little in your element you are and and I remember thinking like At first I’m like wow beautiful animals on
(28:15) all that and I said all these sharks have to do is make make one turn at me and and and decide they wanted something different it wasn’t that damn thing I could do about it yeah exactly because you’re you’re in their element you’re in their home and it’s the funniest thing you know I I meet these people that are deathly afraid of sharks and I’ve worked with some some huge celebrities that are terrified of sharks and then all of a sudden you get those people in the water and all they want to be is close to the
(28:42) Sharks because they they realize they’re not interested and the sharks are swimming away from them they’re like why are they going away I want them closer I’m like oh and you were afraid like five minutes ago on the boat terrified now you want to be close to the Sharks and that’s you know it’s a really life-changing and perspective changing experience that you cannot replicate in any other way yeah I’ll tell you it was uh that was a life moment I’ll never forget my my kids still talk about we talk about it as a
(29:12) family it was one of the it was it was just an amazing experience because you you know once you get to know something a little bit more you don’t need to fear it as much you might respect it more you might want to you know how to be careful but the fear goes away when there’s some familiarity like I said knowledge dispels fee yeah right on right on so now um so you’ve done you’ve done some additional TV work as well right so you’ve done you’ve done Shark Week you but you also there was another show that
(29:43) you were on right wasn’t it where um you were part of a um uh what was it you you were part of another group uh poaching team that’s it the anti-proaching team yeah I remember that yeah what was that yeah um so I’ve done like 18 shows for Shark Week now um and a couple of years back Xbox uh gave me a whole bunch of money to shoot a pilot for a a show that we were going to call fearless and I was gonna embed uh in this series with um different groups and different people all around the world that were risking their lives
(30:16) to make the world a better place and so we went and shot the pilot in Africa with my very good friend Damian Mando who is an Australian Navy clearance diver as well um you know a special forces sniper 12 tours of Iraq private military contractor who transferred all those skills into building a group to protect the wildlife of Zimbabwe and so I went out there and spent a bunch of weeks with him and his Rangers learning about what they did you know they gave me a five minute lesson on how to handle a snake and then gave me a debt black
(30:49) mamba which which was terrifying but incredible experience I didn’t want to leave Africa to see the work that these guys were doing risking literally risking their lives and now he’s um Damon’s actually running the only all-female anti-poaching unit in Africa it’s called Uh akashinga and there’s a very very good documentary everyone should watch it it’s called akashinga which means the brave ones and these women are from you know tribes that have expelled them because of rape or because
(31:22) of domestic abuse or children out of wedlock and they’ve been beaten and raped and like horrendous conditions and Damien’s brought these incredible women together to stand together as a team and protect the wildlife of Africa and so yeah it’s it’s really quite amazing no doubt so you were on the anti-poaching team in Zimbabwe is that where this group is from as well yeah yeah so I spent a couple of weeks out there um I’m not so much a part of the anti-poaching team I was there to document it I went I went through their
(31:52) weapons training their unarmed combat training handling the deadly animals went out on patrols with them um but you know that in my condition with uh my missing leg and robot arm there’s no way that I could do long term what they do or even even short-term to the degree that they do it like they’ll go out there in the middle of the night and they would come back and say oh yeah we got attacked by a lion now I was just thinking well what do you do when you get attacked by a lion like we just have to hold our ground because it was it was
(32:22) it wanted to eat us and so we have to be the bigger batter predator right yeah meet force with Force right oh yes I was never more concerned about my life is when I needed to go to the toilet and the toilet was just across that dark spot in the driveway in and out house and I was thinking to myself how badly do I need to piss right now because everything he wants to eat me I know that’s how they spend their day you know it’s they’ve got you know their kill or be killed eater eat you know yeah exactly we were we were on a safari
(32:59) in um schlui in in South Africa and we were going around we’ve been doing safaris we did a walking Safari which was unbelievable and and then we did a number of driving safaris and on the last day we hadn’t seen uh a cheetah yet and we we saw a lion from way across and uh sorry leopard and um and the uh and we said uh yeah we’d love to see a lion um that said you’re not gonna see a lion today I said why not like how do you know where they are they say look up on that Hill you notice there’s no animals
(33:28) up there look over over there see where all the animals are you look over there see where all the animals are top of the hill there’s none well that’s where the lions are everyone knows where the lions are there’s no question where they are it’s just a question of are you gonna get to where they are right so yeah we’re telling you you’re not gonna see them because we can’t get to where that is but uh just a amazing animals it’s it’s amazing to see them in the wild and we were when we went
(33:54) um the night we got there there were actually six rhinos poached the night we got there and so there were Rangers everywhere and they had you know areas of the reserve on lockdown that was terrible it was terrible and just like just like just like the Sharks it’s all driven by the Asian trade you know I I I I’d say it but Asia is just literally destroying our planet it’s um I lost you because my my phone’s running out about you yeah um yeah for the for the mythical medicine trade for the the status of
(34:28) shark fin soup they’re literally destroying the planet yeah I mean as long as there’s demand it’s there’s always going to be a problem you take away the demand you take away the problem um so years ago I used to work out at Gold’s Gym then it went away yeah it went away it’s still there it went like well there’s a number of them that close down they Consolidated but they’re relaunching are they not aren’t you are are you involved in that at all well the the Gold’s Gym that I go to the the
(34:56) famous One the mecca has been there for I I don’t know how long decades I guess um but yeah I I love it you know when I first moved out to America four years ago I’d turn up to the gym and Arnold Schwarzenegger’s there every morning and because I’m there every morning as well you know he gets comfortable with people and he starts saying hello to me and I’m just thinking I got the Terminator saying hello to me every morning like uh it was it’s amazing I I that place has really become a bit of a home for me
(35:25) because I’ve I’ve been going there so much and met so many of the locals and the regulars and the trainers it’s it’s very comfortable and I love it everyone thinks it’s this big buff bodybuilding gym but it it’s really not it’s an incredible cross-section of human life you know one of my friends is a 72 year old ex celebrity bodyguard who’s got tattoos all down it’s a big like six one black dude and he had a stroke and he can barely move between the machines but he’s there every morning and there’s old
(35:54) women fat people skinny people young people it’s great I really love going there that’s cool yeah we had we the gym that the Gold’s Gym that I had gone to out here in Riverdale New Jersey where I’m from um had closed down and there was apparently some consolidation of the of the brand but um yeah the whole company’s been bought now it’s been built by the the biggest uh Jim chain in Germany actually uh and then it’s great because they’re really great people I you know I’m one of the new faces of the
(36:25) the Gold’s Gym relaunch which is very very strange um I turn up to the photo shoot and it’s Kim Kardashian’s trainer um uh Karina L who’s a famous instagrammer beautiful Amazonian woman a giant German Viking bearded tattooed man and a a giant jacked black opera singer and then there’s 43 year old double amputee little Australian pull together and I’m like I’m out of my league yeah right on well yeah but you so one of the things I remember when we first met you told me was you the physicality
(37:02) the physicality of coming back from your attack was what kind of got you through or at least put you on a path to get through what you’re what you’re going through so and and I get what you’re saying because you go to the gym and there’s all shapes and sizes there and there’s all and there’s all reasons to be there but you know physical fitness is one of the few things you can do or physical activities one of the few things that you can do where it pushes pushes your mind body and spirit at the
(37:31) same time and it makes you it it’s at some point makes you say either I quit or I’m gonna keep going right you’ve got to make that choice almost every time so everyone in the gym is there pushing themselves a little bit so so if somebody if someone’s listening to this and saying okay I’m inspired by what you said I didn’t go through what you did but all right physicality was one of the ways out where would you suggest someone gets started oh you can get started anyway um it just depends on the level of
(38:01) Fitness that you’re at the level of comfortability that you’re at uh you know I was very very self-conscious after the shark attack having missed two limbs you know I came from an industry where I could I I was employed because I could physically do anything that the military asked me to do and all of a sudden I can’t even walk and so I had to build everything from the ground up again and so it is it can be daunting and it can be scary and people you might feel like people are looking at you but
(38:35) in that that physicality and that training was one of the biggest parts of my therapy and one of the reasons that I don’t have PTSD I I don’t have depression I don’t have nightmares I don’t have flashbacks I’m 100 okay and sometimes I think that there’s something wrong with me just for the fact that I’m okay when I maybe I should yeah but but the getting into the gym and going out for a run you know if you can’t if you can’t run yet take a walk build up the speed of your walk maybe run between the
(39:08) light posts or the bins uh in a small jog build up slowly if you don’t like lifting weights then join a CrossFit Club I you know I love what CrossFit has done for bringing people that you know especially women who might never have lifted weights in their life into a social club and taught them how to be fit and strong and powerful and so physicality is something that I I would absolutely recommend to everyone um no matter what level you’re at just start somewhere because the more you do it the better you get at it and that’s
(39:44) the thing you can actually see your progression and that inspires you to do more makes you feel better you get to live a healthier better life you’re less inclined to get covered which is you know a big thing right now so there’s no reason not to do it right right on and you’ve since gone vegan recently yeah well four years ago so four years ago um not not really that recently it actually started in Africa with Damian um I I hadn’t really known anything about it but you know I saw him eating
(40:17) from a separate pot to his Rangers and I’m thinking oh this this cheeky bugger is saving the good meat for himself and giving the Rangers the crap and so I cockly asked him about he’s like well I don’t eat meat and that I was like what he’s like six two he’s a man Mountain he’s like Search and Destroy tattoo across his chest from his old days and then I was what do you mean you don’t eat meat he’s like well I’m vegan I’m like what’s that and he says well look I was out here trying to protect these
(40:49) animals and then at night I was going home and I was eating the animals and I felt like a hypocrite and you can see Damien he’s at the the end of the game changers movie yeah I was gonna say I remember him from that and he said yeah I’m tired of feeling full of yeah and you know and I’m being a hypocrite so he did something exactly and so that that rung a bell with me that hypocrite word because I’d worked with a lot of very poor leaders and they were all Hypocrites they were all do as I say not
(41:17) do as I do that didn’t lead by example and I always strive to not be one of those people I always want to be leading by example setting the example and so I went home with that on my brain and I decided to go vegan and I failed in two days and so I got put on the back burner for a while and but it just kept popping up like other inspirational people or friends that I knew that I respected had gone vegan and and so I’m a firm believer that when something continuously pops up in your world it’s the universe speaking to you and it’s
(41:56) for a good reason so you need to listen and you’re ready for it too yeah it’s probably been around you for a while I remember I went vegan 30 years ago um and uh you know I had allergies and it was the you know I I heard the message at the right time for me but sounds like that was the same for you yeah yeah absolutely you know I I I I love it I 100 love it I would never go back I feel you know I haven’t had us I haven’t had a a lingering injury since the day I started and I used to get all the injuries I spent so much time in the
(42:36) um in the what do they call them the physiotherapist office with like bad tendonitis in my elbows from cocking machine guns 100 times climbing ropes with packs on and all that garbage all went away I’m good to go and you know what the best thing is I feel good in my soul because nothing is directly dying for me to survive which is it’s needless anyway once you learn you know so the second time around I thought you know I’m gonna do this smart I’m going to cancel things out slowly so I stopped
(43:06) eating kangaroo first which I you know I loved eating kangaroo very rich very low in cholesterol very you know you think about what a cow looks like just a big fat grass eating thing to a big jacked kangaroo I’m like I want to be that big red kangaroo cut that out you know slowly incrementally did it over a couple of months and by the and every time I I cut something away I’d add something more in and I actually get way more nutrients now because I’m not just eating chicken breasts and broccoli yeah right on well yeah and you’re and
(43:38) now that you’re burying it your body can reuse protein and and um it’s a it adapts so much better to that uh you know to that food source you know and um yeah you get uh so when I when I turned vegan in 1990 um you know it must have been a pariah man it was the funniest thing was I go I had a construction company at the time and there’s a deli we used to go into all the time and uh one day we go in and all the guys order their regular sandwiches and I ordered a lettuce and tomato sandwich because that’s all you
(44:12) at the time what no Pastrani exactly so so I go up to pay and he goes I got this i got this and I’m like that’s fine it’s funny he goes no no dude you’re having a tough time he he thought I didn’t order a sandwich because I didn’t have the money right you’re having a rough time I got this one and I’m like and I was like all right thanks you know that’s okay I went back to him later you know so a couple times later I said you know I’m actually I don’t eat meat anymore and uh or
(44:43) animal products and he says oh gosh I got you guys they didn’t have a word for it back then did they no no yeah it was called you’re you’re a you lost your mind like what was your motivation for doing it so far back then when it wasn’t even a thing well I um I had really bad allergies and I had somebody I went through this nutritional seminar and I had somebody challenge me and the lady says to me I bet you it’s the animal products that are in your diet your body’s responding to I’m like wait a minute I go to an
(45:16) allergist I get shots every week I got tested for food allergies he told me I don’t have any and she’s like listen you didn’t hear from me and I’m not a doctor but give me 30 days drink water and eat green vegetables for 30 days no medicines no plant uh no no uh animal products of any sort and she goes see how you feel after uh after 30 days she goes how old he is I’m 23 years old she goes well listen for 23 years you did it this way for 30 days do it my way and if we’re done go back if you
(45:47) don’t like it go back to the way you work so that was 31 years ago now you know 54 and I’m I’ve been I’ve been vegan or now plant-based as you as the new the new name is but yeah within a month my allergies were gone my my went my energy went through the roof and I have not had any medication of any sort but not I haven’t needed it in 31 years like I haven’t amazing oh yeah I haven’t had an aspirin I haven’t had cold medicine I haven’t That’s The Power of it man and that’s why that’s why
(46:21) everyone’s trying to stifle it because you know big Pharma doesn’t want people knowing this because they’re making literal billions and trillions of dollars off everyone being sick when you can cure all of your your illnesses and allergies and auto most autoimmunes I’m not going to blanket everything you can cure everything but look you can cure a lot of stuff just by stop stopping eating these animal proteins and dairy we are not baby cows when there is no other animal on the planet that sucks
(46:54) the milk from another animal it’s ridiculous yeah so what are we doing it for right yeah yeah so I find I mean for me it was funny because I was a I ate meat twice a day you know five days a week and when I announce to my friends oh yeah you know I don’t I don’t eat meat anymore they’re like what but you know one day just spilled into the next to the next to the next one let me think about it anymore yeah same it’s just natural like I I love it and you know what I I like breaking the mold as well
(47:25) um you know I’m not the first person to do it I have a bunch of friends a lot of the guys from the game changers are friends of mine like near my Delgado the bodybuilder Patrick verubian you know um but I don’t I don’t I don’t really rant and Rave about it I kind of let just people assume and then if they get to know me they finally discover that I I don’t need any of that and you know I’m I’m a fit healthy strong dude and I’m 40 nearly 44 years old I I don’t feel like I look that old I have a lot
(47:56) of energy and so I kind of like to break the preconceptions with a bit of surprise and let them know that you can be strong you can be fit you can have muscles and and all that stuff um that you might think you couldn’t have because I thought I couldn’t have that too I thought I was going to turn into a skinny little tree hug and smelly hippie right right right and yeah exactly and and so um uh you know but when people realize that you know your body just kind of settles into its own yeah kind of center of gravity and where
(48:27) it where it was designed to be anyway and then with the with the workout you do and the other regimens you do you build it into whatever whatever optimizes it for you you know like I am by far the healthiest vegan in the world I I yeah I think as long as you exercise you you do your cardio you lift heavy weights you and you can eat almost anything you want I’ve got two buckets of dairy-free um Haagen-Dazs in my freezer right now that I’m probably gonna smash both of them tonight I ate a pizza last night I
(49:05) ate I cooked tacos probably four nights a week I like I love food I love cooking I love eating and I love what the things that I can create with this plant-based like there’s so many cookbooks there’s so so many Instagram Pages like I eat non-stop because I know I can like I don’t have a six-pack but I’m not I don’t have a round belly either um I I and you know so there’s no limitations to what you can do on this plant-based diet except animal products you know there’s 22 000 plants you can
(49:34) eat as opposed to what four animals like what are you really missing out on yeah what are we really giving up here you know and now and now with the Beyond Burger and some of the other plant-based Meats they’ve got the sensation of a uh of a you know regular Animal product if you want to eat food then eat food but make it plant-based yeah that’s right I do it too I got I gotta shop at Costco I got a bunch of Beyond burgers in my freezer I chop that crap up and I put it in my tacos it’s got a good
(50:04) flavor yeah right on right on yeah so we I’m just getting your greens and you’re doing your juices and you’re doing all the good stuff as well every plate has two-thirds green and one-third whatever the hell else you want to make on it yeah 100 yeah right on right on so so you’ve I know you’ve so you’ve come full circle all the way through uh the military it became a public speaker you you know I’ve seen you speak and your your Keynotes are awesome I did I had your book no time for fear but you put
(50:32) out two other books yeah um I did the ebook um tough AF uh which is talking about all of the physical training that I went through uh tough as tough that’s what I thought um but I’m not talking about me I’m talking about the training that I went through yeah um everything from you know it’s [Laughter] um it’s everything from the basic training from the ground up the Basic Fitness assessments you know so I wanted to make it achievable for anyone to start from um so it’s a very basic Fitness
(51:12) assessments you can work up to to everything you go through in infantry school to the things that we did in the Airborne Battalion uh parachute Fitness course and then you know selection processes get into the clearance divers and then stuff that we did for that and you know that stuff turned me into a seriously an elite athlete I I ran races for the Navy up and down some of the biggest mountains in Tasmania over 135 kilometers and I didn’t even train for it and I beat everyone on my team who were like triathletes and um part of the
(51:41) running clubs you know just through doing this training every day um yeah and then this the second book is a revised version of no time for fear that you read um written by my very good friend Lorraine James who’s an incredible writer and a Welsh um Iraq and Afghanistan veteran as well uh so it’s a rehash of the first book with the last eight years included so all of this stuff you know that the first book finished in 2012 uh just before I I left the military and I’ve got all of these stories about learning
(52:16) to be a public speaker learning to deal with sharks learning to be in front of the camera all of the crazy that happens behind the scenes undocumentary shoots that you don’t hear about people nearly dying getting squashed by boats getting attacked by crocodiles all the crazy stuff that they don’t show you so all of that new stuff’s in there I’m pretty happy with it should be out by my birthday end of March it’s called uncaged uncaged uncaged love it love it so we’ll we’ll make sure that goes into
(52:44) show notes and and uh and we’ll we’ll make a big deal of that when it’s getting ready to come out and we’ll have you back on and talk about that some more so so Paul how was uh someone wants to hire hire you for speaking or they want to put you on their next show how do they get in touch for you oh that’s easy just um you know I’m I I use social media but I’m prevalent on Instagram you can just shoot me a DM on Instagram uh you can go to my website uh www.poldagelda.
(53:13) com um yeah I’m pretty easy to get a hold of so you know unfortunately I’m getting booked for live speaking jobs again I miss being on stage man like virtual is cool it’s it’s fine I’ve been doing it for the last year but there’s a little different standing in my lounge room talking to a camera laughing at my own jokes as to being on stage and feeling this energy from the audience and making them laugh making him cry teaching them about the lessons that I’ve learned through this period
(53:41) um you know there’s a big difference there so I’m excited to get back on stage yeah it’d be it’d be nice when um when when some of the uh when we’re all we can move around freely again you know yeah right right now it’s a bit of a bummer yeah I uh yeah I my movements are very limited I’ve done only a couple of Keynotes over the last year but it’s looking it’s looking good to for things to get back to normal so and you call California home now right yeah yeah I love it here I love my gym as we
(54:09) discussed um I I what I love is not just California but I love Living in America which you know they say traditionally is the land of opportunity and it really is and having lived out here for four years now it does make Australia seem very small uh I love my hometown of you know my all my family and my friends are there I miss the beaches um you go you guys are great but you cannot compete with Australian beaches not even close but um it really is I love the fact that it’s almost like a a a multi-country continent you go to
(54:47) different towns they have different accents you know you sound different to someone from Boston they sound different from someone from Wisconsin and you all have your own little um uh little one of the intricacies your little Customs I love I love traveling around the you know I got to go to Kansas City and speak and experience life there I’ve been out to Miami to Texas the Canada I know it’s not part of America but um yeah I love it I love living out here I love the experience I love the opportunity that everyone’s given me out
(55:18) here and frankly the the love that everyone gives me I don’t know if it’s because of my cool story uh or my accent or my veteran history but I get a lot of love out here and it’s very much appreciated well I think it it to be fair I think it’s what you’ve like you said what you’ve done with it you’ve been uh you know you you made things happen for yourself when you know the odds weren’t in your favor in a lot of ways and and you’ve made it happen so I think that’s part of what the
(55:45) inspiration is for sure thanks Mike you got it so everybody uh Paul the Gilder Paul thanks for coming on and we’ll uh we’ll catch up on the next one my pleasure mate see you soon yeah you got it thanks for joining us it’s been another great episode of the Carl Gould Collective where we bring you the best in subject matter experts CEOs celebrities and newsmakers sharing real life stories and expertise to help you succeed make sure you visit Coral ghoul.
(56:14) com where you can subscribe listen to past episodes and find out more about growing your business if you’re interested in personal business coaching send me a message join us next time for the Carl Gould Collective podcast

Carl Gould Collective – Dr Ivan Misner, Father of Modern Networking – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E6gSbzzwdo

Transcript:
(00:00) welcome to the Carl Gould Collective the podcast that offers you the top subject matter experts every episode we bring you guests who will help you reach your next level as a business leader I’m your host Carl Gould and today we have Dr Ivan Meisner so Ivan welcome to the the collective thank you Carl I appreciate the invitation well uh so um you know you’ve started one of the most well-known uh organizations in the world everyone who has gone through a networking event considers going to a networking event or
(00:33) is a networker has heard of BNI uh walk us through the thought process how did you start that and what we what were you hoping to achieve that was different than other networking groups yeah so you know I’d like to tell you I had this vision of an international organization with chapters all over the world but the truth is I I was just looking for some referrals for my Consulting uh practice I was a Management Consultant and I put I I went to a lot of networks and I didn’t like what I went to uh some of
(01:02) them were just mercenary you know everybody would be trying to sell to me I I’d leave those meetings and I felt like I’d been slimed and I needed to go home and get a shower and then I went to these other groups that were just totally social it’s happy hour and hors d’oeuvres nobody nobody was doing business and I didn’t like either of those what I wanted was to do business but not be mercenary and I wanted to be relational but not totally social and so um I merged those two ideas in the glue that would hold it together as
(01:29) our principal core value which I I think you want to talk about later as well which is givers game this idea that if I help you you’ll help me and we had one group just one and we’d take only one person per profession someone came to that first group and said this is incredible I could get a ton of business out of it but I can’t join because my professional category is represented would you help me open a second group and Carl I actually said no at first like is that right yeah way to play hard to guess I’m a consultant and
(02:00) she’s like come on this is sort of Consulting you’re helping me build my business I’m like that’s a stretch but okay and at the end of the year I had 20 groups without trying and that’s when it hit me that we don’t teach this in colleges and universities anywhere in the world and that people need referrals they don’t know how to get them they need the system they need the structure in the process and it was at the end of that year that I sat down and and wrote up my plan to scale the business
(02:30) um and and we’re actually I’m working on a book right now called garage to Global it’s probably a couple years from being ready but you know it’s all about how do you take your business literally out of my garage it was in my garage and above the garage and and turn it into a global Enterprise we now have over 10 000 groups in more than 70 countries which is incredible and and B and I um I know that there are some people that I’ve met that shied away from a group uh because of the accountability
(02:56) of the group meaning you can’t just be a static member you have to you have to be active you have to bring a referral each time um and and I think some people who are uncomfortable with the accountability measure which probably May which probably means they wouldn’t have been a great member that is probably true but let me just clarify you don’t have to bring a referral every time um I mean you just don’t when I was a member I couldn’t have a referral every week I tried uh you have to be willing
(03:24) you have to try to bring referrals on a regular basis but you might bring a visitor you know if you’re if you bring somebody else who becomes a member that’s worth a lot of referrals and so there’s a lot of ways that someone can contribute but accountability is key um for example we have an attendance requirement it’s reasonably I think easy to hit but we have an attendance requirement and you’re right about accountability um it’s one of our core values by the way accountability you know um
(03:50) hockey without rules would be boxing on ice there has to be rules you just need to apply the rules more like Mandela than Attila and if you do that then I think it it serves members to have a system and process and to have some rules right so so I I love the fact that you put together a business a scale uh sorry a plan to scale the business and our audience would be very interesting to hear hey how what was your plan to scale and what is the business model like how does the organization make money and what is
(04:26) it a licensing feel a franchise is it a you know a distributorship a certification how does that work yeah so um one of the first things I did at the time was I read the e-myth by Michael Gerber the entrepreneurial myth by Michael Gerber and I really just did a lot of things that he talked about in the book learn how to work on the business not in the business um one of the things that I did that he suggested in in I know is one of his early editions was to create an org chart as though you plan um uh on franchising your business write
(04:59) down systems and processes and create an org chart as though you were going to franchise your business even if you have no intention of ever franchising your business so that’s what I did I created systems I wrote everything down I wrote what worked I wrote down what didn’t work so that people knew not to do something I created an org chart chart there were there was basically two part-time employees who worked for me um and uh and so one effectively one full-time person and myself and I created an org chart with 15 different
(05:29) positions on it then I wanted to hit within five years and what I did was every time and this was you know a hand drawn this is before you know we’re talking in 1985 so it’s before the technology that can you know do these really cool graphs I hand drew it and I put in my name and all the roles that I was doing this stuff for and the the two women who worked for me I put their name in about four boxes because they were doing kind of two different roles and I was doing like 11 rolls so it’s Ivan Meisner CEO Ivan
(06:00) Meisner marketing director Ivan Meisner uh complaint department Ivan Meisner janitor I took the trash out so you know I didn’t want to do that as we got bigger and so I wanted somebody else and it was powerful to scratch my name off and write the name in the Box of the person that took on that role the one mistake I made Carl was when I was done I was excited and I drew another org chart for the next five years and I threw that one out if any of you do this don’t throw that out I would have it framed and it would
(06:37) be on my wall today because now B and I uh and and I’ll answer your question about what kind of model it is it is a franchise we decided to franchise it so it’s locally owned and operated in many many places we now have over oh probably over ten thousand people who work for the company including franchises employees and whatnot we have offices all around the world and uh it started with that one plan no kidding so it’s a franchise model just in the United States no worldwide worldwide and so um so if I wanted to open a franchise
(07:14) and let’s just assume for a second there was one open I would pay a friend I would pay a franchise fee yes and what would my royalties be uh anyone that is qualified can get the offerings the appropriate offering circular and get all of that information oh gosh so it’s all in there so to close this yeah you have to have an offering circular in virtually every country now and and all of that information is outlined in fantastic fantastic if you put something different now uh I’m using a term that goes way back I I’m no
(07:45) longer I no longer run the business I’m sort of the Colonel Sanders of BNI so I think it is called the youth the ufoc right the universal franchise offerings that’s it thank you that is I I knew it was a different name well I I’m not so sure this is the reason why it was changed but I’m pretty sure it’s always changed the the um the acronym is you and it was just way too close too close to the wrong word so they it’s now the franchise Disclosure document or FDD that’s more politically correct yeah
(08:21) yeah yeah yeah they fixed that that acronym so so terrific so um do you are you still a member yeah I do go to meetings uh I do go to some meetings uh but with 10 100 chapters once you start going to meetings everybody and their mother wants you to come to the meetings which is kind of a challenge yeah yeah I go I mostly do Regional events now we pivoted very quickly from in person I mean we literally had in the in the beginning of covid on 9700 in-person weekly meetings and we pivoted starting in January last year we pivoted
(08:59) China then in February we pivoted Italy and the rest of Europe and then we started pivoting the entire world so right now most of our groups are meeting online you’re listening to the Carl Gould Collective podcast when was the last time you took a deep dive into your business get a free business analysis and find out how you can accelerate and sustain your business growth never miss another episode subscribe at coralwood.
(09:23) com we do plan on going back to us either a hybrid or a full-on in-person program in the future I I yeah when it’s when it’s safe when the regulatory requirements and the safety guidelines allow then you’ll go back to that so what you know people are talking about Zoom fatigue and I get that I get it but networking events are considered to be written about by Health experts as super spreader events and so to the people who say look I’ve got I’ve got Zoom fatigue it’s like okay Zoom fatigue
(09:56) go to a meeting in person someone catches coveted and dies I you know it’s pretty obvious you got to be an easy easy decision to make yeah well right and and networking by their very nature someone who’s a networker is around a lot of people that’s the point um they’re constantly circulating through various spheres of influence which in a pandemic probably not probably not the best idea so very good so setting aside the pandemic for a second because the you know networking is a sort of business that lends itself
(10:27) well to going online to going hybrid to going Zoom so you have that ability there other than covid what are some of the challenges that you’re seeing um in growing your organization well um you know I think it’s about teaching the biggest challenge is teaching people to uh run the program the way it’s supposed to be run and one of the things that we have recently come up with is what we call BNI University you can go you can only go to BNI University if you’re if you’re a member so it’s it’s that’s not open to the
(11:01) public but what’s on there is a step-by-step Universal standard for how to run a meeting well we didn’t have that before being at University and so and and that was you know just within the last few years maybe two three years so what that’s done is it’s created a baseline performance standard and what you know what people tend to do franchise is included is they they start making stuff up you know and this is okay but you know I can make it better let me tweak it here and then they end up doing things that I
(11:35) I did 20 years ago 30 years ago and it’s like why are you doing that but by having everything online so every member can see the way it’s supposed to be run it’s helped to resolve that really difficult um process of consistency yeah that’s great so it’s the biggest complaint I hear from franchisors over time is if they would only follow the system yeah they would only follow the system yeah right but no question about it that’s what happens you know they just get off they chase bright shiny
(12:07) objects and and many of those bright shiny objects I chased 30 years ago so you know don’t do that right right enter trial and error you’ve worked through on how to do that so um so you’re an empty nester now or have been I am yeah how long um well um it’s not new it’s not new oh okay so what is what is one what is an empty nester I’m I’m 10 years away from that so coach me what what will I be doing with my life or what are you doing with your life as an empty nester well you know my wife passed away last year and
(12:45) so you know we had a lot of opportunities to spend time together um where we really didn’t in our first years of marriage because um I had a daughter from a previous marriage and so Elizabeth you know adopted this daughter so she had a ready-made family and then we had two two more and so it was it was really wonderful um just being with my spouse for we were married 31 years and so I’m kind of living a trying to figure out navigate a new world for me because I haven’t been single and 31 years and I find myself
(13:22) um single because she passed away and um it’s so sorry to hear that I’m so sorry to hear that yeah yeah you didn’t know I I get it and and um and so I’m I don’t really have a good answer to your question I’m trying to figure it out this whole idea of dating is like wow you know it’s been I was with the same woman for decades so well for at least the time you were married if not more yeah sure yeah correct well I am told books that I’ve read is that networking is kind of like dating
(13:54) so I have a feeling you may have some prior experience or expertise that you might have to dust off I get it but you might have to uh you might be able to put into practice well ironically I met my wife in BNI is that right yeah it was the best referral I ever got and um she was she was a member of a chapter and I did a leadership team training and um and she was there and and we met there and um the Restless history it might be time to go back to another meeting yes well you’ve certainly made a global impact Ivan I want to thank you for for
(14:34) coming on so tell us about your latest books well the latest book is called the connector effect and it’s about how do you become a master connector what are the things that you need to do and and listen I’ll be candid it talks a lot about BNI so if somebody picks up that book you got to know it’s talking a lot about BNI but it also gives many other ideas on how someone uh can be a master connector you know you know the phrase Carl it’s not what you know it’s who you know yeah I don’t believe it’s either
(15:04) it’s not what you know or who you know it’s how well you know each other right how many friends do you have sure yeah I mean the question the question you got to ask yourself I mean you may have great contacts in your database super emails but the question is can you pick up the phone and call them yeah would they answer your call and if you ask them for a favor would they be willing to do you the favor and that’s um you know when when you have a connection as a verse versus a contact and you become a connector between your
(15:38) connections then you become a master networker and that’s we talk about how do you actually do that and by the way last year BNI passed during covid the craziest year I’ve ever experienced being I passed 16 billion US dollars worth of uh what we call thank you for closed business that’s the business between members 16 billion dollars in business for our members during that’s crazy I’ve ever seen that is impressive yeah so and that’s over 36 years no no that was last year just last year alone last year alone
(16:18) 16.1 billion dollars wow that’s incredible because so I mean and that’s the power of the of the process and proof that it works you know it is absolutely uh and and it’s in its state accountability issue and you know understanding core values you know I think culture each strategy for breakfast and so having a healthy organizational culture is really important this philosophy of givers gain is critical and when you do all of those things and you have that accountability you do business people do business with people they know
(16:52) like and Trust right absolutely absolutely and more importantly they refer people they know like and Trust right yeah I I love the idea and you’re absolutely right what I find when I go to networking groups that are part of Mastermind groups or any other Association uh groups that I’m part of it once I if I show the commitment and I see that somebody else show the commitment I think they go from that connection to your contact to connection or connector and once we’re on that level we’re looking to see how we can
(17:23) create opportunities for each other yeah I call that the vcp process BCP tell us credibility profitability so you first have to be visible people have to know who you are and what you do then you have to move to credibility where people know who you are they know what you do they know you’re good at it because they’ve seen you operate or maybe they’ve heard about you you have a positive reputation and then and only then can you get to profitability where people know who you are they know what you do they know you’re good at it and
(17:49) they’re willing to refer business to you where networking goes wrong is when you know you meet somebody and you say hey Carl my name’s Ivan here’s three copies of my business card maybe you can give two copies to somebody you know and it’s like I’m sorry what when someone does that to me it’s like I’m sorry what was your name we call that by the way in one of my books we call that premature solicitation which you don’t want to say fast three times it’ll get you in trouble I like that I’ll be careful in how I
(18:17) articulate that when I say but yeah it’s a you know someone shows up and they and they are looking for a deal on the first you know uh on the first time in they’re not the giver yeah or certainly have improving themselves to be such so but certainly B and I as as an organization has proven its system over time it’s I mean you know it’s such a well-known Global brand um so um so tell us how can anyone get in touch with you personally or learn more about you I mean or people know how to get in touch with BNI but how do they
(18:50) learn to hear more about you the things you’ve written and and and what’s coming up for you next yeah sure be on isbni.com but my blog is Ivan meisner.com I’ve been writing twice a week either a video or writing since 2007 twice a week wow tons of content free content up on ivanizen.com you can see most of my books and of course virtually all my books are available and I even uh at Amazon just type in Ivan Meisner you’ll see most all of my books fantastic so thanks everybody thank you well so Ivan thanks for coming on being
(19:24) part of the collective um this is another episode where we bring you the uh top CEOs thought leaders and inspirational uh inspirational leaders uh Ivan Meisner is certainly one of those he’s grown a franchise with uh 10 000 member 10 000 uh franchises worldwide transacted over 16 billion dollars uh among members in just a year during covet so that’s pretty impressive thank you thank you once again for coming on and being so candid during our interview I really do appreciate it thanks girl thanks for joining us it’s been another great
(19:57) episode of the Carl wool Collective where we bring you the best in subject matter experts see CEOs celebrities and newsmakers sharing real life stories and expertise to help you succeed make sure you visit Coral ghoul.com where you can subscribe listen to past episodes and find out more about growing your business if you’re interested in personal business coaching send me a message join us next time for the coral Gould Collective podcast

Transcript:
(00:00) company brand and a personal brand is uh it’s just you know that alone i mean there’s much more he’s gonna deliver but that alone was the reason why i thought he should come in and start talking to us now so we can prepare for the coming year so so without any further ado julie if you want to introduce ray we’ll bring them on and we’ll turn them loose [Music] [Applause] celebrities so [Music]
(01:17) [Music] hooray i consider it when it comes to brandy he’s an icon but more than that he’s a good friend what i like about ray perez is that he makes things happen and the unique gift i think that he has is he can make you look good he’s the person’s about giving he is the world’s expert when it comes to personal branding and making you a celebrity so if you want to take your brand to the next level check out rayford’s on tv right on c3tv and reach out to him and become a global business executive he has a
(02:07) mind when it comes to marketing and branding second to none i’ve never seen anything like it what reagan is training in his team provide is a sense of clarity purpose and direction and i will tell you when you can see what you do like that you want to say it more often you see more often you make more money i want to give a shout out to ray perez he’s going to do wonders for your business and get you in front of the right type of people he is the connector getting the people in the room is one thing but having it really full of
(02:34) energy and ready to rumble so to speak is the important thing and i think you guys made that happen sort of say first class event all the way back if you want to be competitive if you want to go global you need branding by someone who has a decade of experience in doing it has worked in all types of different areas and who has a trained eye and who gets you and can bring your stuff out into the marketplace [Music] all right thank you thanks for coming on all right can you guys hear me yes all right welcome everyone thank you carl thank
(03:20) you for having me my friend yeah thanks for coming out i really appreciate it really appreciate it so um yeah and i can vouch she saw it neon green bmw that has been forever nicknamed the suv because we went out to dinner about a month ago and i had this i had to jam myself into that back seat two of us carl is is one of four people that in the entire world that has sat in the back seat of my car okay one of four in the world okay i’m not sure right i just want to i just have to say thank you for not making me sick in the
(03:56) backseat that’s right [Music] um great so the um you know we you have a collection of business owners ceos here and and um you know i i was really moved by your lab your most recent uh presentation where you bought a very influential ceo up onto the stage in this mastermind group a guy who has really making a lot of impact and yet his personal brand was let’s say all over the place and it really left a lot to be desired as far as how he’s promoting himself even though he’s having this great impact and
(04:40) and you got immediate feedback from the group you know uh asking everybody well would you pick up would you take this guy’s phone calls in the beginning people were like well what page you showed me but it was it was way too fragmented and you really made a strong case and so so uh take us through a little bit um your distinctions about branding and and what we should be thinking about and uh point this in the right direction here okay um first do you mind if it’s okay if i ask for a quick poll from the audience
(05:09) absolutely okay um most entrepreneurs are either a service or product driven business so if you are a service drop in service in the chat if your product driven drop product if you’re both put both i just want to get a little bit of a feeling who i’m talking to so i can gauge my content to be best serving for you so service service service service one product two products both service service service both mostly product both service service distribution both okay excellent okay so it seems that majority
(05:44) is service couple both and and a handful of product and would you say yes or no that you are the face of your business yes or no drop it into the chat are you the face of your business yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes okay all right so this is very important because what i’m going to teach is extremely valuable to those who are service and product driven businesses but most importantly if you’re the face of your business why because there is a connection there is a relationship that gets created before someone makes a buying decision
(06:35) okay i think you guys are all smart entrepreneurs and ceos and you understand this concept the question is how do we take that concept and we actually implement it in your everyday life using this new digital resource that we have which is the internet which is mobile devices which is social media landing pages websites and you name it the question is how do we build more relationships faster so therefore we can do more business and how can we pull ourselves out of the equation because your time is the most valuable
(07:15) thing you have if i give you more work to do that’s not going to help you but if we can create something and do it one time that will be leveraged over and over and over and over again all over the world any time of day 24 7 365 that gives you leverage and that gives you power and as an entrepreneur that’s what gives us that that momentum that we need to move forward building a personal brand will do just that now the difference between a personal brand and a business friend is and let me clarify this for anyone that’s ever done branding
(07:55) with any marketing person putting yourself on your website or putting yourself on your business is not building a personal brand it’s just associating your personality with your business which by the way i believe is a good thing especially in today’s day and age it’s very valuable but building a personal brand is different and separate than including yourself in your company brand is that is that clear does everybody get that distinction so everyone needs to have a business brand and i assume most of you do
(08:36) but most people don’t see why or are even aware that building a personal brand will benefit them in a capacity that they would have never ever considered in the past number one do you think of the largest companies in the world like nike for example right that is a brand that is well recognized i mean we can go to africa and people know what the little swish looks like would you would you agree yeah okay and and i’m gonna let you guys drop this this answer in the chat as quickly as you can what would you guess is the best-selling
(09:12) nike of all time drop it in the chat what would you guess best selling nike of all time nike being the most recognized brand in the entire world perfect look in the chat jordans air jordans air jordans michael jordan’s the jordans would anybody disagree that the jordan’s best-selling nike of all time so here’s the question i’m going to pose to you if nike the most recognized brand in the world spends millions of dollars to pay this professional athlete to put his name on their shoes and that is the best seller
(09:59) is nike really the sale or is nike the product and is the person producing more of the sales i want you to just want to pose that question for you to think about okay i’m gonna give you another example um mcdonald’s when mcdonald’s first opened up they didn’t have ronald mcdonald as their uh a mascot right everyone knows that ronald mcdonald is the face of mcdonald’s right we’re we’re clear on that and then they came up with all the friends and all that right all the hamburger helper and all those other
(10:32) people the reason that mcdonald’s created ronald mcdonald was because one of their competitors another hamburger establishment was taking large market share from them because their owner and founder was the face of their business anybody know what hamburger establishment that was drop it in the chat if you don’t wendy’s you got it right some people will say the virgin the king but he came out way later but wendy’s dave thomas everybody remember mr dave thomas with the big glasses he’s there holding
(11:15) your tray right even when you go to wendy’s he’s still there and the man’s been passed for many years so i ask you the question how does a man help sell more hamburgers okay last one this one’s for the ladies does everybody know who j-lo is jennifer lopez right yeah did you guys know that j-lo has a perfume line she actually has multiple perfume lines but i was very shocked to find out that she didn’t actually create her perfume like i could have seen her in the lab with the glasses and the white coat
(11:50) oh i don’t like that fragrance no that’s not how it went down some branding marketing people came to her pr agency they sat down they said we’d like to put her name on this they worked out a deal and they put that fragrance out in the market do you suspect that that scent would have sold the same amount without jlo’s name on it no freaking way so again i posed the question how is it possible that a product like a perfume will sell so much more because a person is attached to it so either you guys can unmute yourselves or
(12:29) you can drop in the chat i want to know why do you think nike mcdonald’s all these companies why do you think they’re attaching people to their brands which are big brands we’re talking about multi-million dollar brands to sell more drop it in the chat or you can mute yourself either one is fine so hey because ray i want to jump as high as air jordan i want to be as successful what was the same i want to be like remember that that was huge that was huge i want to be like mike so guess what i do i go by jordan’s i want to be like
(13:09) mike so in the chat let’s see here so number one people create trust yes uh reliability relationship uh ask they’re aspirational people identify with them and want to be be like them or be connected to them customers relate to people name recognition uh relationship celebrities speak to their audience and uh mike was also with gatorade mike was with a lot right michael mike got a lot of uh endorsements so i want you to to consider this what would it be like if you were the michael jordan the jlo of your business if you were the
(13:58) celebrity okay because what i want you to understand psychologically is that a celebrity and i’m going to use the quotes right a celebrity is a perception it is not real there is no such thing in this world as a celebrity a celebrity is a perception that one human being has of another human being based on this formula and if you want to write this down this would be very useful for your marketing in the future so number one write down what they see below that right what they hear below that right what they read
(14:49) okay next to those three write a big x like a time symbol times and on the right of that time symbol at the top right exposures and underneath exposures draw a line underneath it and underneath that line write time okay what they see what they hear and what they read multiplied by the amount of exposures over time equals but equals celebrity perception okay now i’ve given you the formula i actually wrote the book cracking the celebrity code because this was a breakthrough for myself like this changed my entire life i mean
(15:48) i was already a professional i was already doing multiple six figures business was good but it was not the same when i figured this out and i started to become the michael jordan everything started to shift people wanted me on their podcasts they were inviting me to speak on their radio shows i was getting more speaking engagements than i’ve ever had before from every event that i went to i was going to another one people started coming to me for my services instead of me having to market and sell myself and when people made an introduction to
(16:22) me it was so much easier because my credibility was so much higher so what i want you to understand is it doesn’t matter how successful your business is who you are in the world and more importantly the perception that people who meet you whether physically or digitally which by the way which one do you think is going to happen more often people are going to meet you physically or meet you digitally more often what what is your greater opportunity to meet more people in what capacity digital and now more than ever right we’re
(17:03) clear that the world has changed and your digital presence is actually more valuable than your physical presence now this was true prior to cobin eight months ago i’ve been teaching this for about three and a half years since i discovered it for myself but now forget about it now it’s not even true now it’s like required if you don’t have a digital presence you’re actually going to fall behind your entire competition because people can’t connect with you anymore this is the only way to connect so
(17:38) what what i’ve discovered is through this formula through this process you can begin to elevate your perception of value now why is this important to you the more people that like know and trust you the more people are going to want to do business with you if they obviously have a need for your product or service but more importantly here’s the big one if they know like and trust you and if they have a perception that you have this kind of celebrity status they will introduce you to people that they know
(18:18) that can benefit from your products or services does anyone know why they will do that what is the psychological reason that people who know like and trust you and feel that you’re this kind of celebrity-ish person why will they make introductions to people that they know that can benefit from your products or service why would they do that thank you max got it thank you because it makes and so did mike makes them look good it’s actually an egocentric self uh serving purpose so think about the mind explosion i had
(19:01) when i realized if i focused on just elevating who i am more people will send me customers and i don’t have to do anything and it’s changed my life it’s changed my life i’ve always known that business is built on relationships does everyone agree with that i just want to make sure does everybody agree that business is built on relationships so for the last four years i’ve been studying how can i make relationships faster with people because in the end of the day that’s what it comes down to right the more
(19:29) people we can connect with the more relationships we make and the faster that they feel connected to us they have some affinity towards us the more likely they’re going to ask buying questions because what we teach when we do our events celebritize your brand in two days we teach that you never want to sell you want to create value and you just want to give now you also must be positioned properly that’s the caveat right if you’re not highly positioned you can give give give and give but people are not going to see the value
(20:08) because everything has to be based on their perception of you and perception is exactly that when i brought this gentleman on raul on stage during during the mastermind where that carl was at i knew that this gentleman was crushing it in business like i knew he was doing really good and i knew that he was very active online but i also know from my experience and because this is what i specialize in that he was all over the place so i wanted to take someone who’s very successful who’s crushing it in business who’s very
(20:44) active on social media and to show how still you are giving the world the wrong perception and nowadays ladies and gentlemen i hate to say this it bothers me to say this to you someone who is a professional who has years of experience who’s been around the block but doesn’t have the right digital presence will be outsold by a young millennial who just got into the business is brand new doesn’t know anything but they they understand how to put themselves out there they will outsell that professional 9 out of 10 times
(21:32) they might not have longevity with those clients right and they might not have good rapport afterwards but when it comes to that initial representation and that initial buying they’re going to get the sale does has anyone experienced this does everyone understand what i’m talking about you’ve felt this in the marketplace right absolutely so what we specialize in doing is taking experts like you and make sure that the world sees that and that we elevate your perception to a degree that people will be
(22:04) attracted to you and will be sharing your message with the world now how do we do that we do that with graphic design we do that with social media we do that with video lots of systems and processes and technology this is so important for entrepreneurs it isn’t just about looking good you must get exposure remember times exposure over time we could build this amazing looking brand but the world’s got to see it we got to get in front of more eyeballs does anybody know who garyvee is yes give me a little
(22:44) yeah yeah vaynerchuk grant cardone anybody know who he is okay um tony robbins anybody know who he is what is the common thread between those three individuals anybody know what’s the common thread video i don’t know if you put if you put video in there before but they all use video i don’t know if you realize that they’re all using massive amounts of video okay but they are everywhere that’s what’s in common you see them on linkedin you see them on instagram you see them on facebook you
(23:29) see them on youtube you see them everywhere these gentlemen understand the power of the exposure grant cardone four years ago was just teaching uh you a used car uh a dealerships car sales people how to sell more cars that’s what he was in then he started to become an influencer because he started to get his videos out more people started watching more people started recognizing him and then he got into real estate and then he created the capital fund and now he’s just blown up and now he has events grant cardone makes more money today
(24:08) because of who he is than because of what he actually does and ladies and gentlemen you probably have never considered that you could get paid for who you are and not for just what you do and i’m here to tell you that if you focus on building a personal brand not only will you have more opportunities come your way than you’ve ever had in your entire life your revenue streams will go up and you will have new opportunities that will be more fulfilling for you as an entrepreneur than just running a business and making
(24:50) money and this is something that carl and i just talked about the other day because i said carl you got to understand something you’ve been a speaker for longer than i have you understand what it is to not only provide a service provide a product you understand what it is to get out there and connect with people and share a message make an impact and you know what that does for you there is no better more fulfilling thing for you inside your heart as a human being than being able to serve others and contribute again
(25:27) and i know we do that in our businesses but what i’m talking about is you as a person could be someone for others that you will never meet because they’re only watching you online and you will make an impact on the difference in their lives and that ladies and gentlemen is the number one reason i believe that any service driven or product service driven business if you’re the face of your business you want to focus on building your personal brand because you’re going to make an impact in the world you’re going to make a
(25:58) bigger difference in people’s lives and you as an entrepreneur because trust me i know how lonely it is to be an entrepreneur you will be more self-fulfilled than you’ve ever had in any business you’ve ever operated in the past so that is what a personal brand is and that is why i believe it’s so valuable for ceos and business professionals and entrepreneurs like yourselves yeah and guys i’ve had the chance to see ray’s process it’s amazing he does two full days on your brand and when you come out it’s kind of like our
(26:34) discovery process very immersive and you come out with with what your new presence is and and ray i’ll make sure when julie when we uh put we send everybody out the notes in the recording let’s put all of ray’s information in there for those of you that want to follow up with them you know i learned this lesson um really strongly recently a year ago i was one of five speakers at a big uh a big event and the keynote speaker was stephanie graham and um uh you know steve mcgregor because he’s married to
(27:04) oprah even said he was i’m oprah’s guy right that’s his branding um and afterwards they had a book signing all five speakers were in this area we all had a couple hundred of our books i was one of the speakers and i’m happy to say i was the top rated speaker in the group the line for people to buy my book and come and meet me with through the door i had the most people you know coming i had the highest rating most people coming by the whole bit um and i was i felt really good this is great you know and um and so i
(27:37) leave an hour later i go to the airport and who’s at the airport he’s waiting for his plane look over we started starting to talk and he and he walked up to me and goes he goes man you were crushing it because i was going to come over and congratulate you but you’re in such a line in front of you i just left i just went because no one was online to buy my book forget my autograph and i was like you know that’s so nice that’s really nice of you to say and a really nice guy who walks away and
(28:03) i said wait he got paid five times the amount i did he didn’t have to stand in line because they all bought his books in advance and i realized that during the course of the day and this is the point where it makes for me all the time during the course of the day i won i won on the day but steadman won before the event ever started and that’s the point when i think ray is trying to make was stedman won before him it didn’t matter what his ratings were then not how many people stood in line no matter how many
(28:29) all that you know but steven won before the day ever started and uh and so so guys whether you’re trying to be a speaker or you know want to write a book or any of that stuff you know the benefit to the business of having a personal brand even if it’s just you being a messenger for what you’re all about and how the business will grow impact lives going forward i thought it was a worthwhile conversation for for ray to come on and share some thoughts and i know right we can go on for hours on this topic but guys we
(29:00) gotta wrap up for a couple minutes after do do do can we open for just a few questions would that be okay with you anyone who wants to stay on you we could take some questions so anyone have a question for already either type it into the uh chat box we’ll read it out or come off you can you can ask for any of your questions yes mike yeah sure yeah i i once came into a situation where there was a person there uh for quite some time but prior to my being there who had developed this but it turned into a cult of personnel
(29:33) and so but i guess you’ve got to delineate that fine line so you don’t get that cult of personality and it got to be toxic um and then of course led to a lot of bad things so what exactly is the question the question is how do you develop this personality without becoming such an egocentric or a cult of personality um got it so we actually have an entire two-day course where we break this all down but in a nutshell what i explain is this the reason you will invest time money and energy into building a personal brand
(30:15) is to serve others it is not about you so to answer that question it needs to start with the mindset that the entrepreneur has when they embark on this journey of building a personal brand because i understand that the reason i put the spotlight on myself is because i have god put me on this planet with a big mission to serve people so i’m not here for me to be like raise the man like oh i have 200 000 followers i mean i do but that’s not that’s just so i can be positioned in a way to serve others so the number one thing we always start
(30:50) off with is that mindset and then there’s three elements to build a brand it’s your visual identity your verbal identity and the last one your value identity and that is what will not allow for what you said to even happen because when you know your values and your mission and what you’re here for and you tie that together with how you look and what you say then you’re congruent and you’re in alignment but there isn’t a lot of people out there in the world that will do all of this for an
(31:21) entrepreneur so it’s easy to go off the track just like you’ve experienced so great question mike great answer thank you absolutely absolutely and and i know i don’t want to take up too much time because carl’s event is as timed um i want to give you all the opportunity to get my entire presentation that i’ve done all over the world if you guys pull out your cell phones right now and go to my 360 site which is ray perez 360.
(31:53) com ray perez 360.com and let’s see who’s got the fastest internet i’m like show me show me once you’re there hold up your phone so i know you’re there let’s see ah kelly’s number one i’m number two anybody else all right mike anna okay kevin got it everybody there ray perez 360. diane okay awesome on the right hand side next to the play button that says contact can everybody click that contact button okay and then at the top it says send text click send text send me your full name and your best
(32:32) email and i will send you my entire presentation on how to build your personal brand so then you can actually get all the foundational principles of how to actually do it and then anyone who’s got questions can reach out to me through there as well so just text me your full name and your best email address and i’ll go ahead and send that out to you guys okay anna i got you jj i got you stacy just all right all right and i i do want to mention one thing carl before i go um i’ve known carl for a little while i
(33:15) actually met him the first time when i was speaking at a business conference and he was the speaker in the same room as me prior to me so i kind of came in a little early to set up my my my presentation and that and i sat in the back of the room and i listened to carl and i was just blown away so we got to know each other and since then we’ve kind of done a few things here and there but i gotta say that for those of you that are not already working directly with carl and his team for business growth for scalability for for future
(33:45) visioning things that you would have never thought possible that is what he specializes in and uh i personally am going to be working with carl on some projects now in 2021 because my business has gotten to a point where i’ve scaled but i don’t have the level of experience on how to make all the most effective moves so i’m just sharing with you in full transparency no matter how successful you are no matter how much money you make you always want to have a coach you always want to have a mentor and the
(34:18) fastest way to get to the next level is by leveraging someone who’s already done it and he’s done it with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of businesses so i just wanna thank you carl for bringing me on and i just wanna let everyone know on this call that if you haven’t already set up a session with them to kind of evaluate your business make sure you take advantage of that because what what they will do for you is unbelievable and um i just i love this guy and he has an amazing organization and group of
(34:49) people and i just very blessed and honored to be here to serve you guys so thank you carl great thank you thank you very much thank you thanks i appreciate that ray thanks so much for coming on everyone let’s give it up for ray uh yeah that was awesome we’ll figure out a way to uh get you back because there’s a lot of uh a lot of a lot of interest around what you were what you’re you’ve been talking about as as we as we figured would be the case cool everybody um so enjoy for those for those of you that we won’t see
(35:18) on until next month enjoy your holidays happy new year we’ll be coming back with the ceo collected next month um and uh a whole bunch of more surprises for 2021 hope to have you here on the next one and um in the meantime though everybody enjoy your holiday we’ll get you we’ll get you all the information out about uh how to come on the next call how to uh you know join our seven stage market club okay we’ve already put a number of youtubers uh let’s keep let’s keep this going so hi guys i’m